Doctor Who has gleefully gone the “everything is canon” route in recent years, especially applicable when your main cast constantly travel back and forth through time making significant changes to the course of events.
Doctor Who seems the most forgiving in that area. It has a built in etch-a-sketch mechanism between series/actors/writers and we’ve generally gotten accustomed to shrugging and go “sure, why not” again and again.
Yeah, I remember watching the re-boot thinking, first thinking, “wow, this is getting really complicated” before realizing it was a just a kid’s show ultimately and nobody was taking the timeline implications seriously.
I don´t think you could have a show like Dr. Who with strict canon. Every other episode would be a Yesterday’s Enterprise, with a former Dr running about in the background from an earlier episode.
Loose interpretation is something lots of videogames use on purpose with an “unreliable narrator” POV
dark souls, bloodborne, elden ring games are pretty much built on it. Most of the lore is given through item descriptions, so tying up the big picture is usually the result of interpretation
Elder Scrolls games use the unreliable narrator trick a lot as well, the issue is that it’s also used by writers to retcon stuff into more generic material. Since it’s an open world action RPG with some level of choice they’ve made the weird decision to have all possible actions canon at the same time, even contradictory ones
The Elder Scrolls even has an alternative current that aims to destroy the concept of canonicity itself, it’s called c0da and they’re basically trying to turn fan fiction into having the same legitimacy as ingame canon. It’s a bit weird but it’s led by one of the original writers for the elder scrolls, who happens to be one of the main influences for Morrowind, the best Elder Scrolls game
I just was watching a video on Eldernring from someone who isn’t much of a gamer, but is very much into myth. She really appreciated the deep lore that is underneath the world but never explicitly explained.
I think I might have to pick it up on a Steam sale one of these days.
Warhammer CAN be that way sometimes (mostly 40k), though it varies heavily depending on who you’re talking to. Some of that is due to retcons in the real world and some of it can be justified in-universe simply by the fact that their stage is the entire Milky Way galaxy, there’s a LOT of wiggle room to be found there
40k is nearly built on this, it changed so much from its original concept. Originally, space marines were like the police of places with aliens & humans living together, which is quite the whiplash from the genetic supersoldiers killing aliens for breakfast
the Tolkien legendarium is a lot more loose than most people think. it’s got a reputation for a high degree of specificity and detail, but that’s more true for some things than others, and sometimes those details are contradictory between different versions of the same story throughout the editing process, with no clear indication of which one should be considered canonical
This is partially because the Legendarium was constantly being revised and was never finished, and partially because he wanted it to be self-contradictory, like real mythology.
and in the same vein there’s the premise that all these works are just translations of manuscripts he found as part of his work as a linguist. so in canon everything we know comes from a translation of a copy of a single source with limited information
In much the same way, each variation of Trek can be viewed as an interpretation of events with embellishments and mixed sources of information. The core events occurred, but the details are to be taken with several grains of precious salt.
I feel like super hero comic fans have a bad rep, but are more easy going about this than one may think. Things kind of drift in and out of continuity all the time. Especially if we’re talking about a big creator. Grant Morrison misremembers Batman’s son’s origin? Okay, that’s the new origin! He wants to bring back the second Robin’s red hair, which was written out twenty years ago? Okay, that’s a thing again.
I think the MCU did great translating comics to screen (though I have criticisms), but they can’t keep up all these interlocking stories and have perfect continuity while at the same time have every movie be an action block buster where, at a bare minimum, Earth is saved from total destruction.
So they can do a total reset, but then you have to start completely over, and that pisses people off.
I never really read superhero comics qua comics, but I got the feeling things are MUCH more fluid, like a new writer takes over and makes some changes, and this is happening across multiple books across time.
I’ve long felt that Fox’s X-Men films capture the feeling of being a long haul comics reader best, because of their sloppy approach to continuity. It’s constantly changing directions, slipping in retcons, reintroducing characters in ways that invalidate their previous appearances. You can tie yourself in knots trying to reconcile X-Men Origins Wolverine with the Deadpool movies the same way I used to try to figure out how Hawkman’s continuity could possibly work. Totally get why a lot of people hate it, but to me that was always part of the fun.
Well I’m currently in the middle of watching the new Scott Pilgrim series on Netflix and that seems to specifically be setup to flip everything canonical. Withholding final verdict until I finish it but so far I am liking it.
Well it works off of being a re-imagining of the movie which gets meta. And the movie itself isn’t even a adaption in the strictest sense since the script was in development before the comic ended.
So I just finished watching it and it’s fantastic. It’s kind of like a remix where all the characters are the same but you get to spend more time with them. Definitely one for the Scott Pilgrim fans.
Are there any fandoms that allow a loose interpretation of canon?
I mean, coming out of mythology, it’s perfectly okay for there to be multiple competing narratives, but it seems fans hate ambivalence.
Doctor Who has gleefully gone the “everything is canon” route in recent years, especially applicable when your main cast constantly travel back and forth through time making significant changes to the course of events.
Doctor Who seems the most forgiving in that area. It has a built in etch-a-sketch mechanism between series/actors/writers and we’ve generally gotten accustomed to shrugging and go “sure, why not” again and again.
H2G2 has multiple canons between the books, radio play, miniseries, and movie
The unifying thread comes from the towel you always keep at your side.
👍
Yeah, I remember watching the re-boot thinking, first thinking, “wow, this is getting really complicated” before realizing it was a just a kid’s show ultimately and nobody was taking the timeline implications seriously.
I don´t think you could have a show like Dr. Who with strict canon. Every other episode would be a Yesterday’s Enterprise, with a former Dr running about in the background from an earlier episode.
9 (Tennant) best encapsulates the confusion:
There is/was a Time War, enemies are back and gone again. Best not to think too hard on it or risk an aneurism.
He’s 10 , but yes.
Shit, right. Uh… canon has changed. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
Loose interpretation is something lots of videogames use on purpose with an “unreliable narrator” POV
The Elder Scrolls even has an alternative current that aims to destroy the concept of canonicity itself, it’s called c0da and they’re basically trying to turn fan fiction into having the same legitimacy as ingame canon. It’s a bit weird but it’s led by one of the original writers for the elder scrolls, who happens to be one of the main influences for Morrowind, the best Elder Scrolls game
I just was watching a video on Eldernring from someone who isn’t much of a gamer, but is very much into myth. She really appreciated the deep lore that is underneath the world but never explicitly explained.
I think I might have to pick it up on a Steam sale one of these days.
Warhammer CAN be that way sometimes (mostly 40k), though it varies heavily depending on who you’re talking to. Some of that is due to retcons in the real world and some of it can be justified in-universe simply by the fact that their stage is the entire Milky Way galaxy, there’s a LOT of wiggle room to be found there
40k is nearly built on this, it changed so much from its original concept. Originally, space marines were like the police of places with aliens & humans living together, which is quite the whiplash from the genetic supersoldiers killing aliens for breakfast
the Tolkien legendarium is a lot more loose than most people think. it’s got a reputation for a high degree of specificity and detail, but that’s more true for some things than others, and sometimes those details are contradictory between different versions of the same story throughout the editing process, with no clear indication of which one should be considered canonical
This is partially because the Legendarium was constantly being revised and was never finished, and partially because he wanted it to be self-contradictory, like real mythology.
and in the same vein there’s the premise that all these works are just translations of manuscripts he found as part of his work as a linguist. so in canon everything we know comes from a translation of a copy of a single source with limited information
In much the same way, each variation of Trek can be viewed as an interpretation of events with embellishments and mixed sources of information. The core events occurred, but the details are to be taken with several grains of precious salt.
Every Miku is canon.
I feel like super hero comic fans have a bad rep, but are more easy going about this than one may think. Things kind of drift in and out of continuity all the time. Especially if we’re talking about a big creator. Grant Morrison misremembers Batman’s son’s origin? Okay, that’s the new origin! He wants to bring back the second Robin’s red hair, which was written out twenty years ago? Okay, that’s a thing again.
I think the MCU did great translating comics to screen (though I have criticisms), but they can’t keep up all these interlocking stories and have perfect continuity while at the same time have every movie be an action block buster where, at a bare minimum, Earth is saved from total destruction.
So they can do a total reset, but then you have to start completely over, and that pisses people off.
I never really read superhero comics qua comics, but I got the feeling things are MUCH more fluid, like a new writer takes over and makes some changes, and this is happening across multiple books across time.
I’ve long felt that Fox’s X-Men films capture the feeling of being a long haul comics reader best, because of their sloppy approach to continuity. It’s constantly changing directions, slipping in retcons, reintroducing characters in ways that invalidate their previous appearances. You can tie yourself in knots trying to reconcile X-Men Origins Wolverine with the Deadpool movies the same way I used to try to figure out how Hawkman’s continuity could possibly work. Totally get why a lot of people hate it, but to me that was always part of the fun.
Well I’m currently in the middle of watching the new Scott Pilgrim series on Netflix and that seems to specifically be setup to flip everything canonical. Withholding final verdict until I finish it but so far I am liking it.
Well it works off of being a re-imagining of the movie which gets meta. And the movie itself isn’t even a adaption in the strictest sense since the script was in development before the comic ended.
So I just finished watching it and it’s fantastic. It’s kind of like a remix where all the characters are the same but you get to spend more time with them. Definitely one for the Scott Pilgrim fans.
You’re taking about “loose canon” but the whole conversation is already about Mel Brooks.
TTRPGs usually have a fairly loose canon, and Paizo definitely like to lean heavily into the multiple mythologies aspect.