• flop_leash_973@lemmy.world
    641·
    2 years ago

    Not gonna lie, as a straight white man, I would watch a show called " Doctor Twink with his boyfriend fashion Lizard".

  • KevonLooney@lemm.ee
    611·
    2 years ago

    They forgot Libertarian Alien who’s there for comedic relief. His kooky libertarian plans reliably blow up in his face like Wile E. Coyote.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldOP
      351·
      2 years ago

      Quite woke of them to give representation to a conservative too. We wouldn’t want to ignore any minorities. Not unless they shrink into nothingness. I hope.

      • IninewCrow@lemmy.caEnglish
        32·
        2 years ago

        Conservatism … in DS9 they gave them an entire planet called Ferenginar.

        I’m really loving the episodes with Brunt, Liquidator of the Ferengi Commerce Authority … if any being in the galaxy embodies taxation, it’s Brunt. I love him because I absolutely hate him, a truly genius piece of character creation.

          • IninewCrow@lemmy.caEnglish
            19·
            2 years ago

            Combs also said of Brunt, “He was the IRS guy from hell. He’s the guy who just kept coming back to make your life miserable, audit after audit after audit. I can imagine that that would be pretty awful. He also typified to me the inflexibility of someone who thinks their way is the right way.”

  • MrVilliam@lemmy.worldEnglish
    50·
    2 years ago

    The first interracial kiss on TV was between Kirk and Uhura in 1968. Star Trek is and always has been set in a time when humans have achieved a post-scarcity leftist utopian. Shit’s been this way since way before your uncle started calling everything he doesn’t like “woke” which was only like 4 years ago for the record.

    Know what was really woke? Keeping watch for police brutality and unjust police tactics. For real. I’m quoting this article lol.

    • peopleproblems@lemmy.world
      3·
      2 years ago

      Anything that progressives do is something they try to turn into a curse. They even try it with the word progress and progressive, but it doesn’t have the same effect which they really struggle with.

  • darkpanda@lemmy.ca
    271·
    2 years ago

    Let’s not forget:

    • The Kiss
    • white/black Riddler duking it out with black/white guy in an allegory to race relations
    • Abraham Lincoln calling Uhura a “a charming negress” followed by a brief discussion about the future’s take on linguistics and equality
    • the pilot episode had a woman named Number One who was so named because she was number one at everything she did. She excelled at all the things on the ship. A woman being better than men? Impossible. That’s woke.
    • the Enterprise and a bunch of klingons once showed up to a planet so woke they ended war and used space magic to make the humans and klingons also do no wars in their vicinity.
    • in another episode the Enterprise went to a planet that still had war but they calculated the results of battles using a video game console and then sent casualties to their death in a disintegration chamber and the Kirk blew up the video game console to force them to either negotiate or go back to actual war as a lesson in ignoring the Prime Directive directly.
    • there was a Nazi planet and the Nazis were the bad guys.
    • there was also a Yankee planet where they somehow independently wrote the Declaration of Independence in broken pidgin English and used it to defeat the Space Soviets.
    • the episode where Kirk and a woman exchange bodies was… not handled well and is not a good example.
    • the klingons were soviets, btw.
    • basically every episode of the original series had something “woke”, okay? It was literally the whole point of the series.
    • Fades@lemmy.world
      1·
      2 years ago

      Well said!!! To continue with your points, I really enjoyed this video essay that goes through a lot of what you’re talking about. Really proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that trek valued diversity in regards to both civil rights with race and LGBTQ. (Even though there’s no need to prove an obvious fact). It starts with DS9 but stretches to the rest of trek and even some non trek references

      https://youtu.be/j5_g1DY1FLg

  • samus12345@lemmy.worldEnglish
    272·
    2 years ago

    They were too cowardly to make Doctor Twink and his boyfriend a thing, so they don’t get credit for that. Fashion Lizard works, though.

      • Olgratin_Magmatoe@lemmy.worldEnglish
        4·
        2 years ago

        That, and there is plenty of fanfic to fill the void. A little cowardly to leave it to the fans, but it’s not like they didn’t build the foundations. The writers deserve some credit.

      • UpperBroccoli@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        1·
        2 years ago

        There’s also that segment with Andrew Robinson in some DS9 docu where he states his opinion on the matter pretty clearly. Can’t remember his exact words, but his vibe was one of “shoulda let us have fucked”.

  • bblkargonaut@lemmy.world
    294·
    2 years ago

    The problem isnt woke, the problem is CW level writing. I’ve watched every episode of star Trek up to season 2 of Picard and the writers of discovery not understanding the speed of light, and it feel like the writers are just in qualified for their positions. It’s so bad.

    The writing for all the previous shows all had their highs and lows, but characters acted within their characterization and had genuine motivations. Picard season 1 was a rip off of mass effect and old man’s war, with the facade Picard shoe horned in. Season 2 you have him chummy with a cold blooded murderer who faced no consequences.

    I liked discovery for the first few seasons, but the plot holes, inconsistencies, and poor characterizations, left me feeling like watching the show was more habit or chore. I also never really felt like I got to know characters because their actions are so off the wall that you don’t figure out the algorithms of their personality and motivations.

    I honestly feel like lower decks has been the best Star Trek made in this new era, but I haven’t seen brave new worlds yet or Picard season 3. I just needed a break after Picard season 2.

    • then_three_more@lemmy.world
      13·
      2 years ago

      SNW is much better. It’s not a single story stretched to fit over a whole season helps a lot. It’s definitely one of the best of new era Trek.

      Season 3 of Picard is better than the first couple, but doesn’t really add anything.

      The stand out surprised at how god damned fucking good it is though is Prodigy. The first few episodes are a little bit childish, but after that it is excellent.

      • bblkargonaut@lemmy.world
        1·
        2 years ago

        I’ll have to give prodigy a chance, I loved Voyager and I heard there is a lot connections but the Voyager connections to Picard season 2 is partially why I needed a break from Trek, lol.

    • the_crotch@sh.itjust.works
      12·
      2 years ago

      SNW is legit really good. A return to form. They experimented with different genres like you mentioned on the other shows then when they were writing SNW some brilliant person was like “hey, how about if we tried making star trek?”

      • trolololol@lemmy.world
        6·
        2 years ago

        Agree SNW followed by LD are the best ones recently. And by far the best episode is the crossover of them both.

        I feel like to enjoy discovery I need to mute and turn off subtitles and just enjoy the graphics because they’re really good. But we’ll the most important things is that it open the doors to so many new series at same time, more than ever happened.

    • usernamefactory@lemmy.ca
      8·
      2 years ago

      Season 2 you have him chummy with a cold blooded murderer who faced no consequences.

      Hey, Picard had already been chummy with Worf for years on TNG.

    • Ydna@lemmy.world
      6·
      2 years ago

      Picard s02 was a fever dream that fortunately didn’t go onward (s03 is a totally different contained story). I agree with you tho, Disco had different writers at the beginning but turned into a festering disaster and killed itself.

    • acosmichippo@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3·
      2 years ago

      picard 3 is ok if you can tolerate blatant fan service. BNW is pretty good. and i 100% agree with you about discovery and picard 1-2.

      • Dasus@lemmy.world
        5·
        2 years ago

        Odo is an identity-seeking pre-proto-fascist who redeems himself. (pre and proto both because he’s not a fascist but he might have become one if the Kardassians Cardassians kept power)

        Imho

        Edit k->c

          • Dasus@lemmy.world
            3·
            2 years ago

            Oh fuck it’s with a c.

            Haven’t watched in a while and due to my native language sometimes it’s easy to confuse this shit. But also am very much not sober so more excuses from that as well.

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldOP
          2·
          2 years ago

          (pre and proto both because he’s not a fascist but he might have become one if the Kardassians Cardassians kept power)

          Disagree there. If there is one thing we know about Odo, it is that he has a very strong moral code and a strict sense of justice. Even when Terok Nor was under Cardassian Rule.

          • Dasus@lemmy.world
            2·
            2 years ago

            I would not disagree in the slightest that he has a very strict moral code. And that’s exactly why I said what I said.

            Because the strict code Odo lives by is one of following rules.

            During the Cardassian occupation, he worked as the rules told him to, unbiased. But the thing is that immoral men can make bad rules.

            Perhaps proto-fascist is a bit strong. Proto-authoritarian maybe. But either way, he clearly doesn’t go that way, and like I said, redeems himself.

            • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldOP
              2·
              2 years ago

              In Tribunal, he talked about how he started out that way, but after executing three innocent Bajorans for a terrorist attack, he learned the meaning of justice.

              He was also only brought aboard Terok Nor in the first place because he was seen as a neutral third party.

              • Dasus@lemmy.world
                3·
                2 years ago

                “… because he was seen as a neutral third party.”

                Sort of my point, really.

                If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality. We may be surprised at the people we find in heaven.

                — Desmond Tutu

                • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldOP
                  1·
                  2 years ago

                  Right, but what I am saying is that he figured out on his own while Cardassians were still occupying the station what justice meant and that it didn’t mean just following the rules.

      • marcos@lemmy.world
        1·
        2 years ago

        I don’t remember the series that well… did he learn how to impersonate an Irishman?

  • Thrashy@lemmy.world
    12·
    2 years ago

    Colm Meaney was associated with Sinn Fein (formerly the political arm of the IRA) for a long time, so “Pro-Union Irishman” took me a minute.

  • tan00k@lemmy.world
    11·
    2 years ago

    Are we head canoning Kira as bi now or is she including mirror universe Kira in this? Or maybe I missed something in several watches.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldOP
      131·
      2 years ago

      Mirror Kira is only bold enough to do what regular Kira couldn’t. We all know she thought about it.

    • Aa!@lemmy.world
      111·
      2 years ago

      This is my problem with this meme whenever it comes up.

      There are so many direct occasions to bring up representation and acceptance in Star Trek, so why do people always jump straight into platonic erasure and make up sexualities that aren’t there?

      I for one always loved the ability for people in Trek to work and live close to each other and develop deep friendships without resorting to coupling up. Turning every friendship into something more romantic just seems disrespectful, because people are perfectly capable of being friends without needing to make something more of it

    • ummthatguy@lemmy.worldMEnglish
      6·
      2 years ago

      Quark is more of an inside track informant than an outright villain. While he often held to the Rules of Acquisition, he found himself going against the grain enough to be exiled.

    • MystikIncarnate@lemmy.caEnglish
      2·
      2 years ago

      I liked the purity of quarks character. Always after whatever provided the most opportunity and profit. He frequently was thwarted in his shady dealings in the pursuit of profit, but that’s capitalism baby!

      Not to imply I’m a fan of capitalism, far from it, but he was portrayed so perfectly as the embodiment of pure, unfettered capitalism. Regulations were little more than a suggestion and if breaking them didn’t result in a loss (of profits), or if it had a fairly low chance of affecting his profits, in his mind, then he would simply ignore rules and do whatever the hell he wanted.

      Looking at the world today, that’s exactly what capitalism is doing. If you have laws but no enforcement, corpos will do it because the punishment is basically non-existent. If you have laws and enforcement, but they can hide/relocate/obfuscate that they’ve broken any of those laws, then they’ll do whatever they damn well please, and just hide it. If the punishment for the infraction is less than the profit to be made by ignoring the laws, they’ll do that too.

      One notable example I like to go back to frequently is relating to tobacco. The laws are there but enforcement is stretched so thin that the chances that you’ll be caught are pretty minimal. So many places, like corner stores and gas stations, don’t give enough of a shit to enforce the laws. They make so much from just selling to whomever asks regardless of how old they look and whether they have ID or not (within reason, I don’t think anyone is selling to 10 year olds), they’ll just do it anyways. When/if they catch a fine for it, they’ll easily pay for it with all the profit made from not giving a shit about identifying people. As long as you look old enough, or choose enough to old enough, you can buy some. I’ll strongly express that not every place is like this, but there’s a nontrivial number that are.

      If you take that same approach with everything, you get corpos just eating EPA fines for polluting that are a fraction of what they would need to spend to properly dispose of their industrial waste. There’s probably thousands of examples, but I won’t waste everyone’s time to dig them up and cite them.

      He was the perfect embodiment of this profit-first mentality. Easily one of the best ferengis in any of the trek universe.

    • solstice@lemmy.world
      2·
      2 years ago

      I always thought of Quark as the moral center of DS9. Hear me out. It’s a darker show, much more shades of grey, a bit of a break from Roddenbury’s vision of star trek. Instead of Jean Luc’s pompous speeches, and Janeway’s infuriating (and inconsistent) adherence to the prime directive, DS9 actually toes the line and crosses it many times. Quark meanwhile has his own code, and he sticks to it as faithfully as anyone can. He is true to himself and his species and pretty much never crosses his own line - he crosses our line for sure, but rarely if ever his own. Pretty much the only time I can remember him doing something un-ferengi is when he turned down a gazillion bars of latinum to run weapons for those people planning on blowing up a planet with a few million people on it. At the end of the day you can always count on quark doing the right thing. He’s quite complex, and by far one of my favorite characters in all of Trek.