A few things that are accessible within the USA include:
- Participating in mutual aid programs
- Campaigning on the local level, including for positions like poll watchers
- Making your voice heard in community events in general
- Joining your local DSA, networking
I DO NOT SUPPORT Biden, my vote is not FOR Biden it is for Not Trump. But I know Gaza is why there are MANY people who will refuse to support Biden. I agree with them, but I think these people haven’t quite done the math.
You can have an old, out of touch fuck face who represents MUCH of what is wrong with mainstream American culture and wants to double down on a bunch of it, sustain some of it’s most toxic parts, while allowing for JUST ENOUGH progressive cultural change (especially the sort that doesn’t really change anything) to keep enough of the base engaged with him to keep him (and MOSTLY people like him) in power.
Or you can have a bunch of maniacs who literally want to create Handmaids Tale and are working hard to push us in that exact direction.
Those are the choices. That’s it. Don’t think of it as “Do I support this one or that one?”
Think of it as:
I can push the button for static, toxic status quo, or I can push the button for Handmaids. Not pushing a button is the same as pushing Handmaids. Also, there are a bunch of little green “Feel Good About Yourself And Win A Participation Trophy By Voting For A Third Party Candidate Who Actually Represents Your Actual Values” buttons, but pushing one of them is the same as pushing Handmaids.
If you’re hoping to motivate people to action with the horrifying reality of four more years of Trump (by protest refusing to support Biden)… it’s like headbutting a goat. The goat doesn’t care, or change it’s behavior and it hurts you WAY more than it hurts the goat. In this case, the Right is WAY better organized, unified and prepared to go full fascist then the Left is to get together and demand real change. If you’re unfamiliar with Leonard Leo or the 2025 project, I can point you at some podcasts to give you some nightmare fuel. There’s nothing like them on the Left, no one throwing that kind of money at being that organized to create political and social change on so many different levels.
tl;dr: I STRONGLY feel like Biden does not deserve my support, and Gaza is a big part of my reasoning, but a non-vote is too close to a vote for Fascist Hellscape.
I made these points (less eloquently) to my mom this week, and was disturbed to find that she stopped caring about what I thought the second she figured out I was going to vote for Biden. I completely agree that we can’t let Trump win, but the Democrats are going to keep experiencing disasters if they can’t find a candidate that people want to vote FOR instead of just pointing out the catastrophe we need to vote AGAINST.
I’m more depressed this election cycle than I have ever been before. The future looks grim.
I miss how I felt pre-first term Obama. I voted FOR him that year. Sad that the cycle continues and we’re now back to sighing loudly and voting against the worst candidate.
He was the first person I ever voted for. It’s been all downhill from there. I had some criticisms when he left office, but in hindsight, I think he was a good president and I am still proud of casting a vote for him.
I can’t say the same for the rest. I wish it had been Bernie.
Yeah I got disappointed in Obama when the Snowden revelations came out and it was shown that Obama didn’t put a stop to what the NSA and other orgs were doing. But the alternatives at the time (in 2008 and 2012) didn’t sit right with me.
I also wish we had seen a Bernie presidency in 2017.
I couldn’t agree more. And that analogy regarding Handmaid’s is brilliant.
I can’t take credit for it. Thomas Smith at Serious Inquiries Only / Where There’s Woke / (and now back at) Opening Arguments gave it to me.
I was just thinking yesterday about how I was behind on the two podcasts I listened to. Thanks for the recommendations, though. I’ve heard good things and I think he’s been on at least one.
I am progressive and over 50 and except for a couple of times in local races, have never had the opportunity to vote FOR anyone, only against people.
So my vote for Biden is only to cancel our someone’s vote for Trump. Same as every election. Lesser evil is always the better choice, and always so far the only choice.
Oh I realized I didn’t answer the question. I am countering the NIMBY assholes fighting an apartment development in our neighborhood, giving away some of the stuff I grow in the garden, but mostly have influenced our children (and there are a lot of them) so all are quite left leaning, inquisitive and thoughtful.
Why do so many non-right wingers demonize Biden so casually?
He was just ranked 15th-best president by a large body of presidential scholars, and his record has been impressive despite the chronic automatic blocking by Groupies Of Putin. Details here: r/WhatBidenHasDone; I just wish there was a FV counterpart.
I think he gets a lot of anger directed at him because.
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He’s not as progressive as many leftists hoped
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He’s done a terrible job of highlighting the progressive stuff he has done (or that progressives have pushed/negotiated with him to get done), like he’s afraid that if moderates find out he’ll lose their votes
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He’s not Bernie
At least, these are the things I hold against him. And Gaza plus some very specific other things.
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100% Gaza.
Probably Gaza.
I honestly think Biden is an overall good president whose positive impacts will be felt in the long term. However, it’s really not a good look when he’s (publicly) supporting a country that is actively committing genocide while disguising it as only fighting terrorism. It’s also hard not to think about his massive screw-up in Afghanistan, but I don’t think people care about that.
Yeah, I get the Gaza angle, but let’s not get it twisted and assume that this is all Biden’s doing. The fact is, pretty much every US regime going back many decades has been supportive of Israel, and likely would have operated about the same in this case. And let’s not overlook that Biden has also been pushing for reconciliation and peaceful solutions, too. He definitely hasn’t been unilaterally pro-Israel’s actions, far as I can tell.
Also, if “Gaza” is really the hill some people are wiling to die on, overlooking all of Biden’s overall good work, then they may find next year that they’re no longer living in the democracy they used to.
Meanwhile you have Trump and the right-wingers in office gleefully chomping at the bit to sabotage Biden’s efforts to turn around the Ukrainian war, which does also include genocide.
On the one hand, it’s not that “Gaza” is a hill people are willing to die on, it’s that “You cannot make me party to genocide of this kind and continue to have my support, full stop.” is a hill many people are willing to die on and set on fire on their way out. And… I don’t think we can be blamed for feeling that way. I certainly do.
On the other hand, you’re absolutely right about everything you say about Democracy and right wingers and the only way to stop it.
I will vote for Biden to try to stop Trump, but he and I are not friends and I do not “support” him. I am voting against Trump, not for Biden.
Do you think that using that strategy for 30+ years and seeing things get consistently worse would maybe signal that you should try something else?
Well it hasn’t gotten consistently worse, it’s up and down. We got Florida Forever environment protections, got gay marriage and things going in the right direction for awhile. So no. I think raising a bunch of people who care does more, and when I go into my kids’ high schools and see how different it is from when I was in school, it seems hopeful. The hand that rocks the cradle…
What do you suggest instead?
why specify leftists that will vote for biden? or leftists at all?
I made another post asking how people who wouldn’t vote were planning on doing direct action, and I got criticized for not asking about the people who were… so I made this post.
I can’t win
Am I missing something or did you make that other post on the notvoting comm of solarpunk?
That’s like asking someone at a housewarming party why they oppose Israel’s genocide and then setting up a table on the campus mall to get people’s pro-israel views…
You are missing something; my other post got removed, and on Lemmy it looks like nobody (including me) can see those removed posts. This is in my DMs:
Your post has been removed.
You can view the removed post here: >https://lemmy.world/post/12649980The reason he gave:
This is not a community for US Politics.Crazy. Did you repost it on either asklemmy or politics?
I made the now-removed post first (in the other Ask Lemmy community), and somebody mentioned the “not voting” and suggested I repost it there, so I copied and pasted the text and title in.
And then I made this post, dumbly putting it in a different community without realizing it wasn’t the same as the last one.
Federation and it’s consequences have been a disaster for the human race.
Sounds like we’ve found the TRUE enemy
🤝
Are you an American? Because the only Americans who call people “leftist” are using it in a pejorative sense.
I call myself a leftist, thanks. But it’s messy and complicated, because there’s a lot of pragmatism mixed in there from the time I’ve spent in groups that have an anarchistic bent, since I’ve noted that they have a very, very hard time agreeing on action; great for debate, bad for decisions.
Cursed with the burden of eternal introspection, versus the fascist who can be content to act without thought.
“Liberal” is the only political pejorative I know
Are you an American? Because the only Americans who call people “leftist” are using it in a pejorative sense.
The only people who think leftist is a pejorative are conservatives. Hmmmm…
Call me a liberal though - and I’ll probably ignore it because it’s not worth explaining the difference to most people who will do so. But in my head dem’s fighting words. And ironically, I think there are many who also identify as leftists who would think I’m not left enough to call myself a leftist.
Signed, a Leftist.
You’re right. The only people who use the term “leftist” are conservatives, or people who have studied European politics, because it doesn’t actually define anything in American politics. There is no “leftist” party and there are no “leftist” political groups. “Liberalism” is far more common because it describes an amenable approach to social issues, but also a laisez-faire approach to economic and foreign policy issues. I get not wanting to be called a liberal, or worse a neoliberal, but we do not have a proper labour party, or a communist party, or anything else even remotely resembling the “left.” It would be nice if we did, but the far right has done an excellent job of demonizing the very idea of it.
That’s what I was referring to, which is why I assumed you might be a European, where such parties and ideologies exist out in the open.
I meant no offense.
The only people who use the term “leftist” are conservatives
It was the as a pejorative part that was significant to me, not use of the term itself. If someone is calling me a leftist with a sneer - that person is a conservative.
Because the only Americans who call people “leftist” are using it in a pejorative sense.
No offense taken, but I did wonder because of your seeming assumption that it would be pejorative. (Also please note I’m not OP)
because it doesn’t actually define anything in American politics. There is no “leftist” party and there are no “leftist” political groups.
I disagree that those two things are requirements for leftist to have a meaning. I’m also quite sure we have many leftist political groups, even if they have little political power.
The term is only used in a pejorative sense because the only people who use it are conservatives who use it as an insult.
I’m a unicorn I guess.
I can’t win
Leftism isn’t about winning, that’s the part you’re missing. If you’re just doing what you can to win than you’re no different to and will fall for the same things as a fascist. I remember hearing “leftists are addicted to losing” and what makes that quote especially good is that it came from a guy who later outed themselves as being a fascist infiltrator once they no longer needed to convince people to vote Democrat.
Marxists don’t care about winning. That’s idealism. What we want is an improving of material conditions for the working class.
Gotta make sure everyone knows they’re “cool” and totally part of the club
Lol, this thread is the shitshow you could expect it to be. The fact that the american “left” is so divided will give the victory to Donnie Trumpo. A message from Canada: Please vote for Biden (cant believe I’m saying that), just this time. We know he’s a POS, but your other option could break your country for decades, and we dont wish that to you.
I don’t care much for Biden, but I gotta admit, all the policies that could make a significant difference keeps getting blocked by…the republican congress! So yeah, not blaming Biden for the failure of policies and will vote for him
Some of us just don’t think supporting genocide is something that should ever be done. As a Canadian I get that genocide support is win/win for you, but some American’s see it differently.
I’m scared of dipping my toes in this batshit crazy thread, but why is supporting genocide a win-win for Canadians?
So just to make sure, I am not American and I am wondering if I get this right. If prompt by the choice between Biden who (at least from your pov) supports genocide and trump who said clearly that he would let Russia take Ukraine, and has been completely silent on the matter which aligns with his exclusive focus on america, and had Israeli minister of national security express support for him as he expects trump to give them for freedom to fight Hamas, you want someone who supports Palestine to vote for trump? Just wondering.
Edit: trump stated that Israel would have to “finish the problem” in Gaza. So trump is now vocally supporting the events described by you as a genocide.
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Lol, are you the from the so-called “dirtbag left”? Casual discrimination, entitled Americentrism, sens of intellectual superiority, you seem to check it all. At this point you people gonna get the dictatorship you deserve. The world tried to warn you.
where is biden “supporting” genocide. its silly rhetoric like this why nobody takes online slacktivists seriously
America is giving money to Israel which is genociding Palestinians in Gaza.
long standing policy of foreign aid. biden has also confronted bibi and opposed the harsh tactics against civilians
This point is so frequently missed, some presidents are harder on Israel than others but you’d be silly to think any US leader in this situation would act much different.
Historically, Nixon bailed Israel out, caused an oil crisis. Carter tried, Reagan fucked it all up and blamed Israel. The Bushes, Clinton, and Obama all tried but Trump blew it. He left Palestine out of the Accord and moved our embassy to Jerusalem, which stoked the fires.
Then, foreign aid is genocide.
Biden is not really confronting, as he keeps selling weapons to Israel and bypassing congress for that.
He has to cut weapons supply to Israel, as Holland, Belgium, Japan, Italy and Spain are doing since the ICJ ruling for Israel to prevent genocide source
Holand now has stopped selling F35 parts to Israel to not be complicit with genocide.
Remember that time Trump moved the American embassy to Israel to Jerusalem as a show of support for Israel? Pepperidge farm remembers.
I’m not sure what Trump has to do with anything I am saying?
If you’re willing to vote for someone committing genocide, for someone who’s let COVID rip and destroyed public health, for someone who kisses and embraces fascists then you’re no leftist.
Actually US system of 2 parties is ridiculous. It forces no real choice, as is the case with every duopoly. It’s practically a cartel.
Ok, let’s say your right, I’m a Nazi. So what’s your plan, how can I cure myself?
Well first, stop voting for Capitalists. Second read some theory.
So hasically stop voting (let Trump win) and read “some theory” .Solid plan. Like what reading? Care to share your readings since you’ve figured it all out?
I didn’t say stop voting? I said stop voting for capitalists.
That’s cute. Unfortunatly most of the world cant afford that luxury right now. In the US especially, keep it like that and you wont have to worry about voting at all. Want it or not, we live a capitalist system and I dont see any social revolution coming up anytime soon. Do you have a phone (I bet it’s an iPhone), a car, a computer? Where were those pants you are wearing made again? See my point? Right now we area stuck in it, so if you want to get rid of this unfair system, we’re gonna have to be a bit more strategic than “dont vote capitalist and read…something”. On that last point, I’m surprised you havent made a single recommandation. I’m not much into policital readings but I’ve read Bakunin, Marx, a lot of Chomsky, etc. I’m more into philosophy so I would recommend Nietzsche (Zarathustra, favorite book ever), Spinoza, maybe Rousseau, Cioran and Lao-Tseu for a basic general culture. What are your recommandations? I hope you dont base your ideas only on some privilege white boys playing revolutionaries podcats. Right?
Unironically, this is a pretty good book. The “don’t vote” crowd would hate it if they could read too.
The fact that the american “left” is so divided will give the victory to Donnie Trumpo.
The thing is that the American right is equally or more divided than the left.
Lots of Haley voters out there who will sit this one out or maybe even vote Biden. More than enough to balance the dissatisfaction with Biden among lefties.
I keep thinking that left-leaning Americans need to make a shadow party, shadow Democrats. They recruit people to join, they push for more progressive Democrat candidates, and try to push the more conservative candidates out. Then, when all the effort is done, they vote Democrat at the polls. In the current model, there is no way to succeed as a third party until one of the other parties collapses. So the only real options for change are: take over an existing party, wait for a party to collapse, or change the model (which requires a major nationwide effort to implement).
“The shadow Democrats” already exist, they are called the third-way except they pushed all the progressive/leftists out of the democratic party, and also are funded by groups that are threatened by progressive taxation, let along leftists policies.
So what you would like to happen cannot happen without funding, so a different approach has to be tried.
I question if you’re American. No American I’ve ever met says “USA”. It’s always “US” or “Americans”. USA is only said as a chant of pride.
I swear I’m American (and it doesn’t matter to me because hopefully the debate > my identity), but what would you clock me to be? Am I European or Canadian or something?
I had an American tell me that I couldn’t be from the UK because I said I was British and “Nobody says that”
🤷
Did you forget replacing the first I with a star in Br*tish, or maybe either of the emojis 🤢🤮?
I love the irony that they laugh at the way we ourselves pronounce “Briddish” 😂
I mean, why would you ever say you were br*tish?
what would you clock me to be?
Deceptive? I’ve never once in my life heard an American use clock in a personal manner like that. Clocks are for telling time and counting seconds in a race.
I liked the bit about poll watching. Is this a checklist for things that will be infiltrated for the next election?
Am I a useful idiot for calling out the obvious and furthering the division?
I hate US election season in the Internet era.
For good measure so I know you’re an American, post a picture of Sims - 3, with a sticky note and your username.
Edit: Just so this post gets seen… Stuxnet assassination in Minecraft, with nuclear capabilities. Thanks 🫡
I’m petty sure this whole comment is satire but
I liked the bit about poll watching. Is this a checklist for things that will be infiltrated for the next election?
I’m pretty much pulling from the stuff that right-wingers have talked about infiltrating from the lowest levels and saying we should do it first. Moms for Liberty is a fascist group with actual pull. Steve Bannon wants the fashies to join local boards.
I’ve never once in my life heard an American use clock in a personal manner like that
this comment is in poe’s law territory but just in case, fyi: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/clock#Verb
Just in general?
Support FOSS as a creation of digital public goods. Even more so aiming with decentralized networks or user facing projects.
Partipate at municple level for sure. At lot of those positions go unchallenged and the meetings tend to have open comment period to influence them. Its also where ~70% of interaction with the state actually happens.
Help out local unions during strikes (boycotts, donations, spread positive awareness, etc).
Garden plant exchanges or anything that can help people avoid HAVING to buy things to live.
I really like volunteering at Habitat for Humanity, only things I feel like I can afford to do to help with the housing crisis. Pushing for laxing of zoneing laws, more human centric urban planning (public transport, bikes, walking routes), and better legal support cooperative housing are great to me, but also all long long term. I also am trying to my funds situated to try and set up a community land trust to try and great a bulwark against investment housing and landlordism, but that’s mid term.
I do some volunteering to with our local coopertivly owned maker space too. It really gives people access to tools that many can’t get access to otherwise for a very low monthly rate.
Just now noticing that you mentioned “voting for Biden” as being “direct action” so I think you should probably look into who the LaRouchites are. The history is really interesting so I won’t spoil much for it but I will summarize for the lazy that they are not good people.
LaRouchites are closely related to tankies iirc… Anyway
I could change the title to say “voting isn’t direct action”, but I think at that point it would be needlessly repetitive or wordy. Also, what is your definition for direct action which explicitly un-includes voting?
LaRouchites are closely related to tankies iirc
OK you need to actually read about them because it’s insane how inaccurate that statement is, unless your definition is “anyone left of hitler” which honesty considering you think voting is direct action, which it’s not, seems likely. Are you perchance one of those blueMAGA types?
Direct action, by definition, is when you, yourself, do something. Not get someone else to do it for you.
Looks like LaRouche was regarded as the Stalinist type of socialist, a cult leader, and an anti-Semite. All three of those things also fit Caleb Maupin, a famous tankie. Many tankie collectives spring up around a single strongman in general. LaRouche believed AIDS was spread by insects, which harkens back to Lysenkoism.
If the shoe fits, right! Many nazis also get offended when called nazi.
OK so just a problem of differing definitions. I use cryptofash to refer to the Caleb Maupin types, cus those people sure as hell ain’t on the left no matter how much they claim to be. Usually when people use terminology like “stalinist/tankie” they just use it to refer to anyone left of hitler, which is where the mix-up came from. After I learned those terms were created by anticommunists at the CIA (the same guys who overthrow democratically elected leaders to install their own fascists) for nefarious ends, I stopped using them. Too much baggage.
CIA?
The term “tankie” was originally used by dissident Marxist–Leninists to describe members of the Communist Party of Great Britain (CPGB) who followed the party line of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU). Specifically, it was used to distinguish party members who spoke out in defense of the Soviet use of tanks to crush the Hungarian Revolution of 1956 and the 1968 Prague Spring uprising, or who more broadly adhered to pro-Soviet positions.
Seems pretty leftist to me. And it doesn’t have any other baggage to it, like ableism, classism etc.
For contrast:
The term “nazi” had been in use, before the rise of the NSDAP, as a colloquial and derogatory word for a backwards farmer or peasant. It characterised an awkward and clumsy person, a yokel. In this sense, the word Nazi was a hypocorism of the German male name Igna(t)z… a common name at the time in Bavaria, the area from which the NSDAP emerged.
Which is a word I personally find very useful and will never stop using when appropriate.
As long as you’re genuinely antifascist that’s all I care about.
Same 😊
You need to enact Approval Voting and Proportional Representation by referendum. That way you can vote for candidates you like, instead of against those you don’t. Get hooked up with Election Science to get started.
Wait, leftists want to vote for Biden? That dude is a conservative in progressive sheep’s clothing.
conservative? he’s one of the most progressive presidents in recent history and he’s done it with a do nothing congress
Like murder what we are very likely to learn is 100,000 Palestinians.
i’m pretty sure you have the us confused with israel. last i checked the us isn’t in charge of military policy for israel.
Last I checked they are lmfao. The US is Israel’s patron empire. Without the US propping it up Israel would be on the brink of collapse if not already nonexistent. The US has almost complete authority over Israel. It is the US’s loyal dog.
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It’s a small level of harm reduction. It is not a substitute for direct action. But it is necessary if you care about reducing any kind of harm in the world no matter how small.
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Can you provide definitions for direct action and harm reduction?
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I can agree with your complaint. That is true.
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Username checks out
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While I think it’s important to vote, the user you are replying to is mostly correct. It’s just important to understand that “direct action” isn’t the only viable domain of activism or civil engagement.
Time to push up my glasses and say “well akshually…”
I think they’re saying that because Direct Action has a particular definition.
Direct action may include activities, often nonviolent but possibly violent, targeting people, groups, institutions, actions, or property that its participants deem objectionable. Nonviolent direct action may include civil disobedience, sit-ins, strikes, and counter-economics. Violent direct action may include political violence, assault, arson, sabotage, and property destruction.
So on one hand, they’re right. Direct Action is not done at the ballot box. It’s done in the streets.
But on the other…it doesn’t matter. Just like most “well akshaully” statements!
Because people should do everything you’ve laid out, regardless. And don’t forget to vote!
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people need to get out of online twitter activism. biden has been one of the most progressive presidents since fdr despite the fact that he has a do nothing congress and right wing partisan court
Being progressive for a liberal is not being a leftist, ie a Socialist. Biden has done very little to move that bar.
not being a socialist is typically a good thing …
Being a Socialist is the bare minimum if you’re a leftist, like a somewhat significant portion of Americans, and most people on Lemmy I believe.
This post is directed at leftists, so it makes sense that people are unhappy with Biden from the perspective of a leftist.
if a significant portion of americans were leftist, the democratic socialists of america would be way bigger.
the fact that biden has been one of the most pro worker, progressive presidents in recent history should be reason enough to vote for him
Oof, that’s a lot of straight up garbage, no offense.
The DSA isn’t the only leftist organization, and it’s still large enough to have an impact on congress.
Biden being the most pro-worker president for a liberal isn’t saying anything at all. Liberalism is inherently anti-worker, just not nearly as bad as fascism. Occasionally tossing workers a bone does not make Biden pro-worker overall.
The fact that leftists aren’t satisfied with tepid liberal policies that still continue to entrench Capitalists does not make them right-wing trolls. Socialism is absolutely not horseshoe theory either, on the left end you have worker power and ownership of the Means of Production, and on the right end you have Capitalist ownership of the Means of Production.
This is the point I take most issue with, it’s clear that you personally are a liberal, which is fine for you, but you’re making absolutely terrible cases for why leftists should join you on the right and just be satisfied with the continued right wing status quo. If you want to convince leftists to hop over, the solution is certainly not to call everyone to the left of you a right wing troll.
