I’ve used Linux since about 1996, when only Slackware worked for me ( Red Hat didn’t work right, & I never tried Yggdrasil ).

Ian began his Debian distro sometime around then ( Deb was his partner, hence the distro’s name )

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About a year ago, I was using openSUSE, both Tumbeweed & their more-stable LEAP.

They removed the drivers for my wifi adapter, in an update.

They broke my desktop.

Again.

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I’ve been told by Steam support ( in 2023, iirc ), directly through their system, that they ONLY support the Ubuntu family of Linuxen.

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UbuntuStudio stuck with XFCE for YEARS, even though XFCE is rigged to prevent one from being able to grab the corner of a window, because almost-all of its different options ( themes? ) permit only a 1px thick window-grabber, and that isn’t usable.

Why??

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Try installing Haskell Stack on Void Linux for ARM.

You can’t:

Haskell Stack requires GMP lib, for arbitrary precision arithmetic, and you can’t get that to work on it.

They won’t add it, to make Haskell Stack installable.

So, if the only machine you’ve got is ARM based, and you need to learn Haskell, go get a different distro.

( “Haskell Programming From First Principles” requires Stack )

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I used Ubuntu Server on ARM, for awhile, and the Ruby it included was broken, with a hard-coded bit in one of its scripts that had the wrong-location for one of the basic things in Linux…

can’t remember what it was, perhaps it was /usr/bin/mv instead of /bin/mv or something … it was stupid, though, and it was in the Ubuntu version of Ruby, which was a deprecated version of Ruby … so…

the upstream Ruby maintainers wouldn’t fix it, because they only maintain the maintained versions of Ruby, AND…

Ubuntu wouldn’t fix it, because they insisted it was upstream’s problem, even-though they wouldn’t include a maintained version of Ruby.

Fuck idiocy.

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On & on & on.

Fix 1 thing, & break 3 more , seems to be the “religion” of the various Linuxen.

I’m old, & tired of being beaten-on by “friends” and “allies”.

Abusers are abusers.

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IF I ever succeed in fixing my health, breaking ( permanently ) my health-obstacles,

THEN I want to do a linux-distro that simply excludes all bullshit, & enforces correctness-of-function.

Funtoo seems to be part of The Right Answer ( it is the evolution of Gentoo ), in that people get the benefit of whatever hardware they’ve got, instead of a dumbed-down version which is more sluggish than need-be.

I’d want it to be based entirely on Haskell, & Julia, leaving-out pretty-much all other languages ( Haskell’s correctness & Julia’s ruthless-efficiency ).

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Notice how there is a huge push to replace X.org with Wayland?

Wayland removes ability to run The Linux Terminal Server Project, so you can’t have little arm-terminals stuck on the backs of displays, and 1 single real-computer in the back, with an ocean of RAM, for all the students to use for their real apps…

This “improvement” forces all to either have a powerful-enough desktop or … not be allowed to run the modern distros/Linuxen at all.

War against inclusion of people in poorer places, where it is much more doable to afford a bunch of RasPi-terminals than it is to afford dozens & dozens of x86-64 machines, is warring for … fashion & class-status??

The X Window System works. Through it, TLSP works.

It enables people to have their Blender-renderer machine in the other room, where its fans-noise isn’t going to bother them.

Fashion-motivated or fad-motivated “strategy” consistently solves the wrong problem.

Same as breaking people’s wifi solves the wrong problem.

WTF “loyalty” for a distro can ANYone have,

… once one has been “punched-in-the-face” by them, enough times??

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I’ve read OpenBSD’s statement that “lack of a manpage IS A BUG”.

That IS PROPER.

They GET it.

There are development/programming methods that hold-to the same kind of properness:

Behaviour-Driven Design, e.g.

Test-1st.

As somebody pointed-out, of all the “agile” methods, XP included engineering-processes, like test-1st whereas … the rest, like Scrum, don’t…

That difference-in-religion, XP’s objectivity MATTERS.

Any “improvement” which breaks the functionality-tests or behaviour-tests, and you don’t get the “improvement” in.

Nobody has the integrity to do that, at the distro-level?

I wouldn’t permit any desktop-environment which is hard-coded to have 1px window-grabbers to be included in a distro, hence XFCE would have to get fixed, or it would be locked-out, explicitly for that usability-defect.

I wouldn’t permit breaking of people’s network-access to be an official update’s component.

MAKE IT WORK RIGHT.

That needs to be SOME distro’s spine, that is usable-by-most, and efficient, and including the capability that people actually need to get stuff done…

I want low-vision people being able to use it.

I want blind-readers working in it.

I want deaf people having full function through it.

I want quadraplegics being able to work through it.

I want TLSP working, so a single x86-64 machine, plus a batch of displays & RasPi’s stuck on their backs, give a classroom the ability to teach calculus with Julia which is the proper way to be learning algebra or calculus ( seriously, try Julia: it’s wonderful ).

Anyways, you’re seeing a tiny sliver of the decades-of-abuse that operating-system makers have put in us, that is in me.

I won’t willingly run any MS software ever again, due to their religion of molestation-of-priivacy & abuses ( I was one of the ones stung by their stolen from STAC disk-compression tech, in DOS 6.20, and their Vista era sending all searched-terms from the desktop to Microsoft violated privacy-law for both health-care sytems & for police systems, but … they’re “too big” to make accountable?? etc. )

But the Linux world seems to have one hell of a religious-problem against stable usability.

Distro-runners need to read a book by Al Ries: “The 22 Immutable Laws of Branding”, and understand that that stability/identifiability is a REQUIREMENT for a userbase to be not-sabotaged by one’s distro.

DON’T KEEP CHANGING THE WAY EVERYTHING WORKS, and expect your userbase to love you for it.

KDE 3.5 had much right-idea, but nowadays … wtf??

Too complicated to be allowed to see where one is, within the menu-system??

That isn’t a “feature”, that is “fashionable” mental-illness.

And I despise the Apple-style contextless GNOME way.

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/grouch

just an opinion, of an old, useless bastard, who’s tired of being obstructed/abused by distro-decisions.

_ /\ _

I’ve used Linux exclusively for several years now, but problems that killed earlier attempts were:

• I’d encounter a hardware driver issue I didn’t know how to fix (Nvidia…)
• I’d dual-boot Windows for playing games and maintaining both OSes was too much (this was pre-Steam client on Linux)
• I wanted to customize some setting that the desktop environment’s control panel didn’t support, and I’d have to copy/paste terminal commands I didn’t understand, usually breaking something which necessitated a reinstall.
• Ubuntu would provide outdated / buggy versions of software, and installing the newer version meant installing PPAs which could conflict with other packages / cause other instabilities I didn’t know how to fix.

The first two have seen massive improvements but I still find most desktop environments limiting if you aren’t a terminal expert / Arch type of user, and Ubuntu still provides buggy versions of programs.

20ish years ago I installed Ubuntu on a laptop with the intention to get off Windows. I then spent 4 to 6 hours a day for the next two weeks just trying to get the WiFi to function. None of the fixes I could Google up worked, and that was frustrating. It was the people in the Linux forums that finally made me quit trying, though. The amount of gatekeeping was kind of shocking. Like, how dare I bother such mighty computer men with my plebian questions. I should feel honored that anyone condescended to respond at all, and I should gratefully accept their link to a fix I’ve already tried and fuck off.

I bought a new PC last year and I hate Windows 11 so much that it’s got me eyeing Linux again. But the thought of having to repeat that whole ordeal again makes me feel sick to my butthole.

I haven’t used it since Valve made Proton what it is today, but:

The troubleshooting was a nightmare. Heaven forbid the trouble be with graphics drivers. I love the command terminal and all but when you try 10 different solutions from Stack Exchange and Reddit and all of them give you errors or do nothing at all… At some point I just had to accept that it wasn’t worth the amount of time I had to invest in it.

I hate Windows as much as the next guy but I had to admit that troubleshooting, for whatever reason, took significantly less time when problems came up on Windows.

Some people like to work on their pc, and not work on their pc.

Don’t get me wrong I love Linux, but outside of the Lemmy echo chamber is isn’t very accessible for the average user

People told me “oh yeah, gaming on Linux is a comparable or even better experience compared with gaming on windows.” Well after a whole weekend spent troubleshooting and trying different distros only to get 20fps max and no controller support for a 5 year old pc game I went back to windows and was playing within about 30 minutes including the time to install the OS.

Edit: Before you go giving me tips: yes, I tried that too. You’re missing the point if your solution to the above is “more troubleshooting, I guess.”

It’s “hard”.

I’m an os slut. I use whatever… daily driver is Mac, most of my work is RDP to windows servers

I’ve always got a Linux flavor or two running

We are not most people… not even close. “Most people “ love that their computer runs chrome - and that’s good enough.
It lets them facebook and do taxes.

Asking even the most basic lift. Install Firefox; try an ad blocker. Care about your privacy.

Nope. Make Netflix work is about as far as it gets.

I want to get Asahi running when I have some time to spare. I’ve only don’t run it as a daily driver because what I have works. And that’s fine.

Bugs. Bugs, everywhere.

These often require workarounds via the terminal – if we’re lucky. The whole situation gets old after a while, despite myself using Linux for 25 years now, and being an ideological supporter of Free Software for just as long. For new users, it’s terrifying. At the end, convenience wins, and that’s why I’m typing this via an M1 Macbook Air. Despite that, I still have 5-6 older Linux machines/laptops around, and I often run Debian ARM via virtualization too on this Macbook. I won’t ever quite decouple from Linux.

But it’s important to objectively point at its faults, and for the chance that these faults will never get fixed, unless massive corporations come behind it to do the heavy lifting: proper beta testing of absolutely everything on the desktop/apps. That’s the non-glamour part of coding that volunteer programmers hate to do, or can’t do. It’s what saved the Linux kernel, systems utils and server software: the companies that came to clean it up, develop it further, and support it. The desktop doesn’t have that same support. That support died in 2002 when Red Hat announced that it will become a server-only company. Ubuntu is too tiny to help, and they’ve moved to servers too anyway.

Last time I tried diving headfirst into Linux, I got frustrated by having a problem and all the suggested solutions are all wildly different (from an outside perspective) series of editing settings or unusual terminal commands. I already knew how Windows worked well enough to do most things I wanted, but didn’t have almost any understanding of how Linux operated so all of the opaque solutions offered without explanation of why or how it should fix the problem just added to my confusion. Couple that with having to sort through one or two dozen suggestions to find one that actually works, not knowing if even attempting any solutions would cause other issues later.

I tried to install Linux on my new laptop, trying multiple different distros.

• Many of them did not work with my 3840x2400 screen, with unreadably tiny UI
• The sound did not always work
• When the sound did work, I either couldn’t change the volume, or figure out how to disable the speakers when I plug in headphones
• Sometimes screen brightness could not be changed

In short, driver problems. So many driver problems. I was sinking too much time into it, and I was basically unable to use my computer. So I gave up and switched back to Windows. Windows has its own annoyances, and I want to use Linux… but Windows mostly works, most of the time. Linux doesn’t, and I have neither the time nor the technical skills to make it work.

It’s gotten a bit better, but last time I tried switching, the GUI client for my VPN provider was shit, the PC gaming compatibility aspect (non-Steam) wasn’t quite good enough for me, Nvidia’s drivers said fuck you to my display, and I couldn’t quite figure out how to set up Samba. Lol.

Performance and reliability when gaming is my only reason for keeping Windows installed.

Steam and everything else have already exceeded my wildest expectations in Linux, however I am somebody who wants to come home from work, fire up a game and have it work perfectly with the best settings and framerates I can manage. I don’t have the time nor patience to troubleshoot why some update just broke the game in some way after I’ve spent the last 10 hours dealing with other people’s problems.

Historically, it’s been because I didn’t just “use it”. Instead I tinkered with it, and then broke it beyond my ability to repair.

Everything I know about Linux I learned troubleshooting a problem. And I still feel like I don’t know shit about the OS. After so long with Windows, Linux feels like living in a country where you don’t speak the language; everything is harder than it needs to be.

If the day comes where games are as easy on Linux as they are on Windows, I’ll give desktop Linux another shot.

This said, I’ve self-hosted on a Debian box for years.

Linux works well if you need something to function as a tool, be it a NAS, network appliance, server, etc. You can setup it up with the small subset of things you need it to do and trust it’ll just run without further interference.

When it comes to a consumer device, it fails the “just works” criteria much harder the OSX or Windows. Software tends to be maintained by an army of unpaid volunteers passionate about their specific use case with a lot of infighting around how things get done. Such functionality is often developed by people with such a warped idea of usability that they consider VIM to be the ideal, modern, text editor. This is a piece of software that started life in the mainframe days, where input lag was measured in seconds rather the milliseconds, in order to minimize number of keystrokes, no matter how convoluted. This leads to multitudes of forks of functionality with subtly differing functionality often with terrible UI and UX catered to the developer’s specific workflow.

Whenever a lay persons asks how to get started with Linux, they get sent down a rabbit hole of dozens of distros, majority of which are just some variant of Ubuntu, with no clear indication of what’s different as they all just describe themselves as the ultimate beginner distro. With the paralysis of choice, they can pick one at random and hope it’ll work with their hardware without issue, spend hours figuring out the nitty-gritty differences and compatibility issues, or just give up and keep using what they already know.