• bigkahuna1986@lemmy.ml
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    2 years ago

    Systemd apparently. Every time someone brings it up, the thread devolves into a religious flame war.

    • Lettuce eat lettuce@lemmy.ml
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      2 years ago

      I’ve never got this either. I’ve been using Linux exclusively for over 4 years, multiple devices, tested dozens of distros, almost all Systemd-based and I havent ever experienced any problems that the anti-systemd folks talk about.

      Or at least, they were so rare and minimal that I didn’t notice.

      Coming from an IT background dealing with 99% Windows machines and Microsoft products, maybe my bar was on the floor, but Linux has been soooo much more stable and dependable than Windows.

    • The Bard in GreenA
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      2 years ago

      fUcK sYsTeMd ItS fAsCiSt BuLlShIt If ThEAy PuT iT iN lInUx AnD tAkE oUr FrEeDoM i WiLl SwItCh To BsD uMmM IdK wHaT iT dOeS rEaLlY sOmEtHiNg WiTh SeRvIcEs I gUeSs FuCk SyStEmD!!11!!

    • intensely_human@lemm.ee
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      2 years ago

      Systemd is awesome. I used to use init.d and was annoyed when I had to learn systemd instead, but once I did I’m so glad it exists. Declarative is the way to go.

    • Swiggles@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      2 years ago

      I used Linux (and some Unix) before systemd was a thing and init scripts are jank. So much boilerplate and that was before things like proper isolation existed and other more modern features.

      I don’t understand why anyone would want that back.

      A replacement of systemd with something else would be fine, but please no more init scripts and pointless run levels.

      • fubo@lemmy.world
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        2 years ago

        Upstart was fine. It does the parallel init thing without taking over the whole OS.

        • Swiggles@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          2 years ago

          I almost forgot it existed. It was a slight improvement, but with a whole bunch of new problems (most notable race conditions which were never fixed) and it was made obsolete by systemd.

          It was a good evolutionary step only used by Ubuntu iirc. It was better at that time than the previous init system, but not more than that and it never found wide adaption.

      • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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        2 years ago

        Yeah when systemd came out it was over a decade since I touched an init script. So the only difference to me was my computer booted up faster.

    • Rin@lemm.eeOP
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      2 years ago

      Unfortunately I have the gene, but onions are great though.

    • AFK BRB Chocolate@lemmy.world
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      2 years ago

      There’s a generic thing with cilantro that makes some people think it tastes like soap. I don’t have it, but my wife does. I hardly notice cilantro, but even a little ruins a dish for her.

      • OceanSoap@lemmy.ml
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        2 years ago

        What we taste is a specific chemical that you can’t taste. There are a handful of these chemicals that can be tasteless or not based on your genetics. Drinking alcohols all have a chemical like that. If you ever see anyone hold their nose while taking a shot, it means they’re a taster of that chemical, and trying nor to taste it.

    • OceanSoap@lemmy.ml
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      2 years ago

      I hate both, and I lasted a week in Mexico city, but learned how to request those things off, if I could.

    • oʍʇǝuoǝnu@lemmy.ca
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      2 years ago

      Oh I’m quite aware, tomatoes too.

      Every little bit I eat them to see if I like them (or can force myself to) but I just haven’t been able to yet. I really wish I could just get over my dislike but I can’t seem to enjoy the taste.

  • rouxdoo@lemmy.world
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    2 years ago

    Streaming videos on my phone using speaker for audio while at the restaurant eating lunch. I figured for sure, everyone would want to get in on that awesome stand-up comedy action or zany talk show that I enjoy with my meal. It turns out that (gasp!) some people even think it’s rude…LOL.

    • XEAL@lemm.ee
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      2 years ago

      To those people who say you can’t express sarcasm over text.

      Fucking really? Can you not see it here either?

    • Rin@lemm.eeOP
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      2 years ago

      I’d rather a hundred of those than some kid with mommy’s iPhone watching brainrotting Youtube Kids videos all day with the sound on. At least then I won’t feel bad for the kid.

      • DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de
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        2 years ago

        JFC. Sometimes people visit us with kids and it’s just arrive > open youtube > commence rot > spice it up 9yo twerking.

        My partner is pregnant with our first child. I get the convenience of free child distraction, I also get that I might find myself doing exactly this in several years, but honestly I really hope I can find ways to at least minimise this. It just seems so Orwellian or… wall-e-ian.

        I swear my kids are probably going to hate me because I’ll be the most boring dad around that forces kids to play outside instead of doing all the fun stuff.

        I’m sure they only do this while “mummy is visiting” and it doesn’t happen at home.

        • Rin@lemm.eeOP
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          2 years ago

          I think it’s fine in moderation and when it’s some manually curated service like the children’s section of streaming platforms (but even then it’s not perfect considering Cocomelon exists), or in the case of YouTube you’re watching it WITH your kid to avoid running into anything weird (though I think any platform meant for content aimed towards children should be 100% manually curated). The problem is when it’s excessive or it winds up sending your five year old down a bizarre rabbithole of pregnant Spiderman twerking videos because you didn’t bother to moderate what they were watching.

    • alokir@lemmy.world
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      2 years ago

      No, I hate that. Standup comedy is so overrated, what I want to hear is your phone call!

        • wheeldawg@sh.itjust.works
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          2 years ago

          There’s a segment on a podcast I listen to that is all about conversations without context, and half of phone conversations are a common feature.

          The hosts will mention some they’ve encountered over the week since their last recording, and people will call in to share the ones they hear. Always a good chuckle.

  • saigot@lemmy.ca
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    2 years ago

    I played like 40hours of Cyberpunk 2077 before going on social media. I Thought it was going to get “mid” reviews, but I guess I got really lucky to not hit any serious bugs. Lesson being: If you wanna enjoy a game, don’t look at any marketing materials, and don’t seek out social media about it until you’ve had time to form your own opinions.

    • weew@lemmy.ca
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      2 years ago

      I read reviews before buying on day 2, basically. Sure, I expected some bugs, as the reviewers warned. I barely got any, just some visual glitches during cutscenes. Still, I would give the game a solid 8/10.

      Came out of my playthrough to everyone raging about everything about the game. Couldn’t even give an honest opinion about the game without being downvoted to oblivion because people who never even played the game refused to believe the game was playable at all.

    • averagedrunk@lemmy.ml
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      2 years ago

      Same. I played it on stadia and it was pretty stable. When I went to that other site to see what people were saying I was absolutely shocked at the amount of bugs and hate it was getting.

    • railsdev@programming.dev
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      2 years ago

      I’m not a gamer but I’ve noticed reviews of anything are usually trash. And if you’re thinking about buying a product and looking at reviews, you’ve gotta be careful to avoid reviews where they get a cut on the “buy now” links. In fact, usually if it has a link to buy it I just go back and forget that review.

    • Carighan Maconar@lemmy.world
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      2 years ago

      To be it was truly bad, but not in a rage-y way, only in a “Wow, this is it?! All this hype, all this wait, and this tepid fart is all we’re getting at the end?”-way.

      I finished it - which granted isn’t difficult given how brief the main quest is - then went through some specific side quests. I will give it credit, some of the side quests have really cool characters and are overall really well done. And the graphics can be pretty as hell in some if not most areas. But ~everything else, the main quest, the writing, the story, the city in itself, the software quality, the combat system, the upgrade system, it’s all there, it’s largely functional, but just barely so.

      So yeah, just massively disappointing given how much work must have been behind it. I don’t even want to know how often management yanked the team around and made them re-do massive parts of it, the bugginess and tonal disjointedness of the finished game hints at it plenty.

      Special shoutout to the driving, which highlights how the game was clearly not meant to have this until relatively late in development.

      • The_Ferry@lemmy.world
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        2 years ago

        I have driven one and despised it. It ran out of battery way too fast, so a 4 hour car ride turned into an 8 hour one because I needed to charge so often

        • rbhfd@lemmy.world
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          2 years ago

          When was this?

          We did a trip with my friends’ Tesla earlier this year. Normally would have taken us 8 hours, now it took 10 (or maybe it was even 12h instead of 10).

          The car also wasn’t properly charged the night before for some reason, so we left with half a “tank”. That added an extra stop. I also think there were a lot of traffic problems which contributed in the extra time.

          I also don’t mind to stop every 2 hours or so to charge. Perfect time for a bathroom/coffee/food break. But I’m not used to driving long distances. I know some people like to drive for 4 or 5 hours straight.

          • ikidd@lemmy.world
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            2 years ago

            I’ll typically drive 12 hours without a stop. I hate having to stop, better take your piss before we get going because you’ll be doing it out the window.

            • Taringano@lemm.ee
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              2 years ago

              Do you drive a truck that has a tank to go the 12 hours without stopping? Also #1 and #2, how?

        • saigot@lemmy.ca
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          2 years ago

          Really? My wife did a 5 hour drive (Toronto to Ottawa) and the car’s only recharge took less time than her lunch. This is with a bolt EUV which is a cheaper car with slower charging and range than a lot of the competition.

          Were you using a very old/cheap EV, or were you forced to use a slow charger?

          • The_Ferry@lemmy.world
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            2 years ago

            I used quick chargers wherever possible, but also had problems getting those to work and was told I needed to hold up the charger by customer support when I finally got through to them. It was a BMW i3 which is indeed a model that is no longer being produced.

            I’m not saying EVs are a bad thing, I just don’t think the tech is quite there yet compared to “normal” cars

            • saigot@lemmy.ca
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              2 years ago

              It’s better in some way, it’s worse with others. My 400km range EV is good enough for most of the road trips I consider, but it doesn’t quite stand up to some more hardcore road trippers, and it’s winter range is markedly worse (your experience is quite the outlier in my experience though).

              As you drive more electric you start to get a feel for the good and bad charging providers, (just like we all have preferences for gas stations I may add) some have pretty near instant customer service, others are basically build and forget. Where I live there are government owned truck stops that all have the same fast chargers that in my experience are well maintained, so the anxiety around finding a working charger isn’t a big deal during road trips. There was a brief period where I couldn’t use at home charging and my nearest fast charger broke down, that was a huge PITA.

              But road trips are kinda a rare occurrence for most people, I at least might do one trip a year that’s greater than my range. it’s really nice to never have to go to a gas station, I genuinely don’t really think about how much fuel I have ever, and that fuel costs me pennies where I am (about $5 for 400km of range at my home electricity rates). It’s nice that it has essentially no maintenance. It’s nice that I can start preheating my car in winter while it’s in the garage.

              If an environmental miracle happened today and gas cars were something we all could use forever, I personally would still drive electric.

              That said I also just moved to a more walk-able city and god dammit cars have ruined society, I find myself in a car way less than I used to, but still far more than I would like.

              • The_Ferry@lemmy.world
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                2 years ago

                Oh yeah I basically never drive a car, it was a rental. It’s just that my personal experience want all that great because I rented it specifically for a road trip

    • Lols [they/them]@lemm.ee
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      2 years ago

      fucking despise them, its disgusting that investing in renewables or green only became attractive to governments when it meant sending more money to fucking car manufacturers

  • Lettuce eat lettuce@lemmy.ml
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    2 years ago

    1991 Hook with Robin Williams. I love that movie, but it seems that most people I encounter that didn’t grow up with it think it’s lame and boring.

    So maybe not hate, but not love either.

    • HashinHenry@lemmy.world
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      2 years ago

      It’s a texture thing I think. If I take a bite with mushroom in it, my like animal hind brain just straight up rejects it. Gagging spitting, the whole tottler experience. No conscious thoughts, no tasting, just reflex

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        2 years ago

        I know what you mean. I tend to cut them very fine and take a good long time to cook off all the water in them so they become firmer and less “squeaky” feeling. It helps.

    • Ejh3k@lemmy.world
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      2 years ago

      I grew up hating mushrooms. It wasn’t until I was an adult that I learned that my mom was a bad cook. Now I eat them, and many items I hated as a child, all the time.

      The last thing I just can’t get behind is olives. And I keep trying in the hopes of something clicks, but it hasn’t

    • IDontHavePantsOn@lemm.ee
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      2 years ago

      Along with a lot of people preparing them improperly, people just can’t get over the whole fungus thing. I slowly acclimated my wife, and after years of encouragement to try them, mushrooms are now one of her favorite foods, which kind of sucks because now I have to share my mushrooms. All it took was her trying them one single time.

    • JokeDeity@lemm.ee
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      2 years ago

      Can’t do it. I can’t do the texture. I also can’t eat any type of squash or zucchini type stuff because of the texture. Immediately makes me gag. Eggplant parmesan is one of my mom’s favorite foods to make and to eat and I’ve probably secretly thrown out about 100 of them.

    • melisdrawing@lemmy.world
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      2 years ago

      I hated mushrroms my whole childhood. Ate magic mushrooms when I was about 19, and they changed my opinion of mushrroms in general. Like I suddenly appreciated their earthy, woody, umami beauty.

  • XEAL@lemm.ee
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    2 years ago

    Large Language Models (such as GPT) and AI image generators.

    I follow certain AI related post tags on Tumblr and sometimes I see people expressing pure hatred towards these tools, as they only see the AIs as content thieves.

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      2 years ago

      I don’t mind the tool itself if you use it as such. I do mind when people use its output as the final product. See: the lawyer who used chatgpt for a legal brief

      • XEAL@lemm.ee
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        2 years ago

        The lawyer fuck up is what happens when someone doesn’t know or understand the limitations of a LLM.

        If you want a GPT model tailored and specialized for a specific task, you have to train it with custom data, fine tune it and tweak the model’s parameters. You cannot do that from the ChatGPT web/app, you need a custom implementation coded in Python or some other language.

          • XEAL@lemm.ee
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            2 years ago

            Thanks. I have a quite powerful rig, but at the moment I work with OpenAI’s API using GPT 3.5 Turbo using a custom (but shitty) Python script with a simple Gradio web interface. However, I mostly stopped improving or updating it months ago. As long as I don’t use LlamaIndex, the cost is quite low.

            I already use Stable Diffusion WebUI, tho.

            Also the “fine tuning” I was talking about is this https://platform.openai.com/docs/guides/fine-tuning

            • Daisy (she/her)@lemmy.ml
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              2 years ago

              I am aware what fine tuning is. It is available from the train tab while the base checkpoint is loaded in both cases.

        • DokPsy@infosec.pub
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          2 years ago

          I’m glad you understand my point. Chatgpt is not Google. It’s a language model that will give you something that looks like the thing you asked for it to provide. It can and will pull facts out of its recycle bin if it fits the cadence of what it expects the answer to look like.

          • XEAL@lemm.ee
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            2 years ago

            ChatGPT is not Google, but sometimes it can work as a glorified search engine or even compete with asking in forums.

            I’ve lost count of how many times ChatGPT has produced Bash or Python code for what I needed. Yes, sometimes the code is wrong and/or requires tweaking and sometimes I resorted to look into the documentation, but no one will answer faster and anytime of the day like ChatGPT does, at least not for free.

            • DokPsy@infosec.pub
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              2 years ago

              It’s a tool to aid in creating a product, not a tool that magics out a finished product. That’s my point. Too many people use it as the latter instead of the former.

              • XEAL@lemm.ee
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                2 years ago

                100% agree.

                Maybe, with lots of training, weaking and testing the latter could be achieved, but that’s it.

        • DokPsy@infosec.pub
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          2 years ago

          Letting a language model do the work of thinking is like building a house and using a circular saw to put nails in. It will do it but you should not trust the results.

          It is not Google. It can, will, and has made up facts as long as it fits the format expected

          Not at the very least proof reading and fact checking the output is beyond lazy and a terrible use of a tool. Using it to create the end product instead of as a tool to use in creation of an end product are two very different things.

            • Carighan Maconar@lemmy.world
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              2 years ago

              The person you first replied to asked you to see the legal brief as an example of why they mind using the output as the finished product. You then asked for an explanation. To which I asked you, hey, have you actually looked at that example? You have not.

              What exactly do you want here, other than be argumentative for combative reasons?

    • Rin@lemm.eeOP
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      As an artist I think it’s a more complicated issue than a lot of people are making it out to be, and all the fearmongering some popular artists are promoting really doesn’t help.

      • XEAL@lemm.ee
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        2 years ago

        I think it’s a more complicated issue than a lot of people are making it out to be

        Agree.

        Also. People are pissed that what they have taken years to master others can now get close to replicate with little effort and time.

        I’ve just realized that although they call the AIs “content thieves”, what they really feel is that as AIs are able to replicate their skills quickly, it makes them feel their own merit diminished.

        If an artist creates artwork inspired on some other artist eveyone’s cool; if an AI does the same, then it’s stolen work even if the generated image is a unique new one.

        • TooMuchDog@lemmy.ml
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          2 years ago

          You sound like you’ve already closed your mind to the discussion, but in case you’re actually still willing to healthily engage in the discussion here is a really good video about why calling people who utilize AI in their work “hacks and grifters” is a very narrow minded (and often factually incorrect) way of looking at AI utilization.

    • Carighan Maconar@lemmy.world
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      2 years ago

      I wouldn’t say “hate”, to me it’s more… so what? They’re really bad at what they do, only impressive at first glance. Not bad for some brainstorming, but then you end up with a facsimile of what the actual result would be, and now have to use that as a guideline to create the result.

      • XEAL@lemm.ee
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        2 years ago

        IMO they’re not bad, but they require a lot of tweaking and trial and error.

        I’ve learnt some Python thanks to ChatGPT’s help. When I say “some” I mean that I was able to create a custom implementation that uses a web interface and custom tools. The more lI learnt, the less I needed ChatGPT, but I always require some more coding help.

        However, these LLMs are not sentient super smart AIs.

    • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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      2 years ago

      LLM is way overhyped. So if your boss bought into that hype you’re gonna have a certain amount of animosity towards it. I’m a developer and it can be helpful at times, but managers seem to think it can write software on its own.

      It’s basically an iterative improvement over a search engine, but unlike a search engine it cuts off the people creating the content it’s scraping from any kind of revenue stream.

      And yeah there’s some real problems with it stealing content. Which isn’t being addressed at all. And bringing up these issues tend to get treated like Luddites by those that have bought into the hype.

  • KaiReeve@lemmy.world
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    2 years ago

    Black Licorice

    My mother likes black licorice and so my sister and I grew up eating and enjoying it every Easter. Turns out most people hate the stuff.

    • RBWells@lemmy.world
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      2 years ago

      Yeah part of why I liked Halloween was those bags of black and orange jelly beans. The only jellybean flavors I liked as a kid. I love licorice, anise, fennel. My kids do too. They ask for fennel instead of onion in a lot of foods.

      I do understand people not liking it though, it’s a strong and odd flavor. Like cantaloupe.

    • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.mlBanned
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      2 years ago

      Only cheap and shallow people hate Android. These people are not worth spending time with. There is no legitimate reason to hate Android.

    • SimpleMachine@lemmy.world
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      2 years ago

      Honestly if every brand would stop making their own shitty launchers and filling their phones with bloatware this would mostly not happen anymore I think. Pure Android on Google Pixel phones is hands down better than every other version.

    • Gebruikersnaam@lemmy.ml
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      2 years ago

      It is only bad in the sense that it could be so much more, but it certainly is the best we have for phones atm.

  • N-E-N@lemmy.ca
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    2 years ago

    Transition Lenses for blocking out sun. So helpful but people think they’re nerdy 🤷 with the right frames they look good imo

    • Mr_D_Umbguy@lemm.ee
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      2 years ago

      They are a pain in cold winter weather in Minnesota because most of the ones I’ve had transition back very slowly after having been out in the cold I just switched to prescription sunglasses with tinted transitions instead.

      • oʍʇǝuoǝnu@lemmy.ca
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        2 years ago

        Look into magnetic sunglasses, Zenni sells a few pairs if you buy online. Best decision I’ve ever made.

        No longer do I have to yolo changing glasses while going 120km down the highway to work during that stupid 2 month period where it goes from pitch black to blinding sun during my commute.

        I’ve had them for about 3 years now and I wish they would catch on faster so I could get new styles. The sunglass part is pretty thin but I’ve yet to break it in 3 years of accidentally leaving it in my back pocket while sitting down.

        • Carighan Maconar@lemmy.world
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          2 years ago

          You mean clip-ons? They’re neat in theory, but my glasses are already relatively thick by virtue of my bad eyes, even in lightweight. So whenever I had a clip, the weight + bulk of the glasses started to annoy me. Pricey as it is, I’d rather just have two sets of glasses then.

          • oʍʇǝuoǝnu@lemmy.ca
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            2 years ago

            I guess they could be called magnetic clip ons. I have terrible vision myself (-6.5) and require thicker lens (which zenni doesn’t actually accommodate I had to buy from elsewhere) and I never found the added weight to be an issue. As far at price, I only paid 150 cdn for the glasses which is one of the cheaper pairs I’ve owned.

            Personally I hate having to carry around two pairs of glasses, it’s annoying af but if that’s what you prefer, you do you.

        • Mr_D_Umbguy@lemm.ee
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          2 years ago

          I like my Costco sunglasses instead. They have a real light tint by default and then can transition darker based on light level. They’ll even darken behind a car windshield!

          This works for me because the tint is light enough out of sunlight that I can see indoors with them on fine

    • megane-kun@lemm.ee
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      2 years ago

      Huh?! I’ve only discovered transition lenses a handful of years ago, but once I tried them, I’ve never looked back. I used to have a problem with glare and too much sunlight when out and about. I can’t wear sunglasses either (since I already wear prescription eyeglasses), and thus transition lenses were a great help.

        • megane-kun@lemm.ee
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          2 years ago

          Hmm, I haven’t really explored that option. I used to wear contact lenses though, and used them with sunglasses. But I found wearing contact lenses kinda finicky, so I gave up on them. I’ve also heard of those clip-on sunglasses, but along with prescription sunglasses, I find the idea of bringing an extra pair of glasses to be annoying. But then again, I could probably just put them in my bag and forget about them until they’re needed.

          But yeah, I’m pretty much happy with my transition lenses that every glasses I’ve had ever since my optician recommended them to me were all transitions. I’m just wondering why they’ve got such hate from others.

    • vivavideri@lemmy.world
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      2 years ago

      I had a pair in high school and loved them, but they don’t really darken enough when driving, which is unfortunate

  • kaitco@lemmy.world
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    2 years ago

    The third Alien movie, Alien 3.

    I love the first one as a proper horror film, and love the second one as a great action film. Alien 3 always seemed to stand well with the other two by returning to the horror genre, and expanding on Ripley.

    In the third film, Ripley has lost everything that she fought so hard for in second film, and it’s her against this alien that has taken everything and she knows it’s finally going to take her life in total.

    The setting in Alien 3 was very original as a penal colony that’s just hot and dark, and the design of the alien is entirely different since it burst from a dog (or, a bull if you watch the Director’s Cut). The alien moves faster and more haphazardly and the cinematography reflects this as well. The final scene with Ripley’s sacrifice is the fitting end to what was a trilogy at that point.

    I don’t know whether people confuse Alien 3 with the 4th one or what, but Alien 3 is a fantastic film that holds up well decades later. I’m always confused by the fact that people slam it so often, and it wasn’t until I saw people crapping on it online that I realized that there was even a consensus that it was bad.

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    2 years ago

    I was shocked to discover the hatred the old live action Mario movie gets. I enjoyed it when it came out when I was a kid. I rewatched it as an adult to see if my memory was faulty… still enjoyed it. It’s a little campy, but it’s a fun romp! I unironically enjoy it, as a good movie and not as a “so-bad-it’s-good” movie. And yet it gets so much hate

    • Astroturfed@lemmy.world
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      2 years ago

      I’m kinda with you. I didn’t hate it as a kid. However, if you were expecting a MARIO AND LUIGI movie it just didn’t come even close to delivering. I wish they’d just made that movie as something else, because it wasn’t Mario.

    • ManosTheHandsOfFate@lemmy.world
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      2 years ago

      I was an older teen when it came out and didn’t see it until just a few months ago. I don’t think it’s great but I was more entertained watching it than the new animated movie. It’s totally bonkers.

  • radix@lemm.ee
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    2 years ago

    Snap on Ubuntu. I totally did not comprehend that it was proprietary; I just thought it was convenient, like apt.

    • XEAL@lemm.ee
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      2 years ago

      I didn’t know that, but I already disliked it because installed apps don’t really integrate in the system (eg: file system access, themes).

      Even Ubuntu installs this way something as basic as Firefox, what the fuck? At least I managed to get rid of the snap version and install it properly.

      • Kerfuffle@sh.itjust.works
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        2 years ago

        Ahh, I hate Snap so much. It actually what drove me to switch to Arch (btw). It was just so annoying going to install something and having it try to pull in snap and all its dependencies… And of course, if you don’t want Snap you have to deal with the inconvenience of finding another way to install the app.

        There are reasons to dislike Snap on principle and also very practical reasons. It liked randomly preventing the system from shutting down. Installing a new OS on a slow or unreliable internet connection and want a browser? How about we install Snap and then tell to download that thing and maybe a bunch of random internal dependencies with no visible progress and unreliable error handling? Get it away from me.