I have been thinking of learning some programming recently, but I don’t feel confident enough. Is there any point in beginning with something like Zig or Go, and switching to something more serious later?
I question the suggestion that Zig and Go are not “serious” programming languages. They certainly weren’t designed to be “easy” beginner languages.
I don’t think it matters a whole lot which language you start with. Learning to program is largely separate from learning a particular language, and if you do programming for a while, you’ll probably learn several. I do think someone who wants to understand programming deeply should learn each of:
- A lisp, probably Racket, but others will do. This teaches a lot about how computation works, and is at least a local maximum for abstractive power.
- C, an assembly language, or something similar where the developer must manage memory manually and has the ability to mismanage it. This teaches how computers work.
- A statically typed functional language, probably Haskell. This makes programming more math-like and probably represents a local maximum for what can be proven about a program’s behavior without solving the halting problem.
- SQL. I wish there was something prettier with a modicum of popularity that does what it does (PRQL is my favorite recent attempt), but there isn’t. This teaches thinking about data in sets and relations, and you will almost certainly use it in practice.
The creator of Go has an infamous quote on the language.
The key point here is our programmers are Googlers, they’re not researchers. They’re typically, fairly young, fresh out of school, probably learned Java, maybe learned C or C++, probably learned Python. They’re not capable of understanding a brilliant language but we want to use them to build good software. So, the language that we give them has to be easy for them to understand and easy to adopt. – Rob Pike
That’s one of the dumbest articles I‘ve ever read. Glad the author realized it themselves.
So Go was meant to be something similar to Java 4. A language where it is very difficult to shoot to your feet.
Why in your opinion do you think any person who wants to understand programming “deeply” (I’m not exactly sure what you mean with that) should learn lisp and haskell? It seems way way unnecessary.
And then you throw in SQL. Sure why not, but then why not javascript, Lua, c++, rust, PHP and a whole load of others who will teach you something unique most probably.
Not OP but I was a pretty competent C/C++/C# programmer first. Lisp and Haskell both totally changed how I thing about programming. I’ve used all the other languages you listed and I don’t think any of them have a unique philosophy to offer, except maybe rust for the memory model.
Lisp teaches you how flexible programming languages should be. Haskell teaches you about things like higher kinded types, and exposes you to loads of cool category theory stuff. Other languages can probably accomplish these goals, but I don’t think any of the alternatives you listed could.
Flexibility? Have you tried c++ 😁, check out template meta programming, and voilà rusts static memory management and compile time error checking in c++.
What I want to say is you don’t need this or that language to grasp functionality, and IMO heskel and lisp probably have more interesting and modern counterparts, if you feel the need.
Edit, forgot you’re not OP so my answer is potentially a bit wonky, sorry about that.
Some people want to learn programming to get a job, though perhaps not as many in 2026. Some people want to do a project that happens to requiring programming. Some actually want to understand programming and get good at it. The last group will benefit from learning Lisp and Haskell even if they don’t end up using those languages much. I thought my first comment explained why and I think Corngood elaborated on it, but I’ll add more.
The reason to use programming languages instead of machine/assembly languages is that they add abstractions, and allow the programmer to add more abstractions. An abstraction is a name and implementation for a repeated pattern in code, which documents the programmer’s intent when it is used, allows all invocations to be modified in one place, and substantially shortens programs. In most languages, there’s a distinction between abstractions the language designer can add and those the programmer can; in Lisp, there is not.
If most languages didn’t have
iforclass, you couldn’t add them in a library; you’d have to modify the interpreter or compiler. Here’sifdefined in a Lisp-like language I’m working on:(defmacro if (test then else) `(cond ~test ~then true ~else))This is possible because Lisp code is made of Lisp data structures which it can easily manipulate, and because it has the ability to control when evaluation occurs. Here, we need to splice three blocks of code into a
condexpression, which is a more generalized form of conditional evaluation that takes an unlimited number of test/then pairs. We must also prevent the premature evaluation of the branch not chosen, which is whyifandcondcan’t be regular functions. In Common Lisp, the entire object system can be implemented as a library.Haskell and similar languages also offer significant power for abstraction with its sophisticated type system and lazy evaluation, but the more important lesson they can teach is the gurantees they can make at compile time. Once a Haskell program compiles, it has a much greater chance to work as expected than any other language I’ve used.
SQL teaches thinking in data. Most programs exist to store and manipulate data, so that’s pretty relevant.
Sure, but many languages do that, see my answer below. I just personally wouldn’t recommend either lisp or haskell to someone learning how to program. There are more modern and better ways, IMO.
Sure, but many languages do that,
I wrote several paragraphs and talked about three languages, so I’m going to have to guess about what “that” refers to. I’m guessing it’s Lisp macros. Your other comment offers template metaprogramming in C++ as an alternative.
Template metaprogramming Gets maybe a third of the way to what Lisp macros offer. It can do compile-time syntax transformations, but it doesn’t provide the full C++ language with which to do so, doesn’t operate on the actual parse tree, and isn’t Turing-complete in practice because of fixed limits on recursion depth in real compilers. Rust macros get much closer, providing the full power of Rust and the option to get at a real AST by parsing the token stream they operate on.
If you mean something else, please elaborate. It’s an interesting topic.
There are more modern and better ways, IMO.
I’m not sure what “more modern” means in this context. If it just means young, I can probably find a Lisp family language with its first release this year, though that wouldn’t be the one I would recommend to a beginner. If it means recently-updated, Racket, the Lisp I recommended learning had its latest stable release nine days ago. If it means something else, please say so.
“Better” probably can’t be measured objectively, but by all means, make the case for something else.
I really hate SQL it often feels like you have to work backwards instead of procedurally when you get anything complex going. Thank goodness I mostly work in pyspark.
Edit: Also thanks for the shout to prql looks cool might try it in a personal project or something
The trouble with “easy” languages is that they allow you to write incorrect code without much pushback.
The trouble with “serious” languages is that they push back even when you’re writing correct code.
There’s plenty to learn from either route. Just pick something that piques your interest and dive in.
well summarised
Go is not serious? TIL.
There is benefit in learning any language.
I believe, I should’ve put this in quotation marks
Depending on what he means by “serious”. I don’t know what hat means in context of languages. So, depending on his personal definition what “serious” means, Go might not be serious at all.
Anything is better than nothing.
Go and Zig are serious languages. Go is especially established and has a big ecosystem and capabilities. You could stick with Go forever if you don’t want to expand afterwards.
Starting ‘simpler’ is better because it gives you successes. It keeps you going.
crazy to call zig, a low level systems language, an “easy” language
Python is designed as an easy language. Yet it is a fundemental important language in the IT, backbone of many Linux operating systems and servers. One could even say… a serious language.
I personally wouldn’t care if a language is called “easy” or not. You should also look at what it is capable at its peak and where it is used most often, if it works for you. Pick the language that you think fits you the best. I wouldn’t call Zig as an easy language to get into, its still low level language.
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Zig or go are not that unserious of languages. Zig is arguably quite hard due to being pretty low-level. Maybe think about what domain you want to do programming in… Python might be a decent starting point tho (easy language, no memory management)
Is this bait? Zig and Go are very much serious, especially Zig.
Generally python/Javascript is good for learning the basics. To know how types work learn c#/java/go. To learn how the memory works Zig/C are good. To learn about what a fully defined behavior means in a program you learn Rust. To learn what actually happens on the processor you learn assembly.
Honestly, if you’re hyped about Zig go for it, although I’d suggest “warming up” by doing a tic tac toe in python.
Zig and Go are serious. I think Python would be a language that isn’t serious (despite it’s widespread use in serious applications) but has a reputation for being easy. I don’t know if that reputation is really deserved.
Anyway I would start with one of Python, Go or Typescript (via Deno). I would avoid Rust, Haskell, OCaml, C++ as your very first language, but they could be your second.
Whatever you do don’t learn Python and stop there. That’s the way to be a crap programmer. And if you do use Python learn to use type hints early on.
1 agree with everything you wrote besides the Deno?
why Deno?
Typescript projects are a significant effort to set up with the traditional tooling (NPM & Node). With Deno you can literally just create a
.tsfile and run it.do you think it better than bun? (the anthropic acquisition and rust rewrite aside)
I haven’t ever used Bun tbh.
I feel like Python is sometimes too powerful in terms of what you can achieve with few lines of code. It tends to have lines that do a lot of things at once and therefore become very hard to understand despite not having a lot of code at the surface.
In my opinion it is very good for stuff like data analysis and scripting test setups, but (with my admittedly limited experience in the area) I dislike using it for larger applications. Because it is a scripting language and not compiled, I have run into errors that a compiled language would have detected before even starting. Meanwhile python was happy to run my program until it unfortunately branched into the defective path…
If you want to build stuff quickly it is incredibly what you can achieve with it though.
Because it is a scripting language and not compiled, I have run into errors that a compiled language would have detected before even starting.
Use type hints. Pyright in strict mode. (Don’t use mypy, it’s much worse.)
I agree though, it is poorly suited to larger applications. Mainly because of its glacial speed.
It’s not so much easy-difficult, it’s high-level-low-level. Low-level languages can be easy in the sense that you don’t have many entities to juggle (stacks, registers, etc.) and high-level languages can be miserable, like C++.
Of you’re interested in starting with the fundamentals, go with C. If you just want to get something made, go withClaudePython.Yes 99% of programming is the higher level thought process behind making a program, and that skill transfers between programming languages. The specific syntax doesn’t matter that much.
Logic is common to all programming languages. Everything else is syntax and knowing what functions or utilities you can capitalize on. No matter how complex things seem under the hood it’s only one instruction at a time that is being processed. Speed and memory make it seem like multitasking. It’s as simple as “If this, then that”. Once you get the foundations of logic down, you’re good to go. Everything else is experience and time takes care of that. Good luck and have fun. As far as confidence goes my mantra throughout life, especially when faced with complex situations is a derisive “How hard can this be?”, while plodding forward.
Any language is good to start with. When you learn a language pick one that makes sense to you. The main thing you are learning is not the language it’s how to change how you think about problems. From there the differences between languages are technical and any language can be conquered in time except JavaScript because fuck JavaScript.
I agree 100%. The hardest part when it comes to learning programming in learning how to break problems down into simple little if statements and loops. Once you get a solid handle on any one language, jumping to another is much easier. So pick whatever you’re most comfortable with, or whatever tutorial/learning you find best.
100% agree about JS but it’s hard to avoid.
I found it easier to start with something considered medium difficulty, because “easy” languages abstract away a lot of problems of programming. So when certain problems arise, its hard to understand what is happening behind the scenes.
If you want to build something, python is great. If you wanna learn programming, it might be confusing.
so one thing about programming languages is at the end of the day, they can all generally accomplish the same things. they are all turing complete and generally capable of expressing programs that any of the others can.
as others in this thread have said, many patterns you learn within one programming language will transfer to others. some personal context, i attended and then taught at a coding bootcamp for a year about a decade ago, saw over 300 students and have been doing software engineering since. it was full time and the students would learn ruby basics over 4 weeks and then would be able to do the same things in javascript in a few days. that said, those languages are pretty similar but i hope it makes the point.
so my main suggestion is to start with a general purpose, syntactically simple language. the less syntax and overhead in the language, the more you will be able to focus on the fundamentals of programming and less on jumping through the hoops of the language you’re working with. stay away from typed languages for at least the first few months unless you really really only want to do low level stuff.
some languages i think you should consider: ruby, python, javascript. they are relatively similar for a beginner. python has more usage in data heavy scenarios due to it’s extensive data libraries. ruby’s whole mantra is being a joy to write. javascript is simple but that also means you don’t get much help from it out of the box. consider it as a first/second language mainly if you are interested in websites.
