As the title says, I am currently learning to be a programmer, and my tablet does not suffice for the job.
I have already finished a small MEAN-Stack application for learning Typescript, learned some Java syntax (I expect nothing more exciting than a sorting algorithm, but exam language is Java, so…) and the next stop will most likely be plain vanilla C to learn about handling hardware.
Windows I hate with a passion, and I don’t know squat about Macs, so I am thinking of getting myself a decently sized laptop for a sensible Linux install.
History (I started my Liux journey with SuSE Linux 4.4.1, way back when) taught me to be very wary of driver issues on laptops, so I thought I could ask you for recommendations that play fair with Linux.
(as an aside, if I could play GuildWars2 on it in the evening and attach my two big monitors when at home, that would be super cool)
I can not recommend the framework laptop enough. Love their mission of producing a reparable and user-friendly laptop. You can even buy it without windows, to install your own OS from the get go.
I’ve only heard great things about Framework (https://frame.work/) however their laptops are not cheap. I wouldn’t necessarily assume that they fit a student budget. OP didn’t say what their budget is but you can definitely get a laptop that is adequate for programming for less than half of the price. That being said if the budget is there the upgradability and repairability may make it an economical option over the long-term.
Yeah, Framework seems like a premium product for sure. I want one but I definitely can’t afford it anytime soon. Also worth noting that a new framework mainboard rivals the price of some entire laptops. So while it is definitely upgradable and one of the most repairable laptops in the world, it is still a pricy ecosystem to be in.
I had been holding off on a laptop purchase waiting for framework to ship an AMD board, but they took so long that I had to buy another laptop instead. The new models they were showing off at Computex look so cool though. I am really excited about their swappable GPUs.
old thinkpad FTW!
got a T430s for 115Euros one year ago
Laptops these days do much better with Linux than before. But if you really want ~0% chance of dealing with driver issues, I’d go with System76 laptops. They’re made for Linux, and with Linux pre-installed.
Dell and Lenovo also offer laptops with Ubuntu pre-installed and supported.
I would highly recommend a Framework if it’s within your budget and you care at all about right to repair. Otherwise I’d highly recommend a used Thinkpad as they hold up exceptionally. I’ve used Linux on both very smoothly.
Checkout Framework laptops. If they don’t do it for you, maybe try System76.
Thank you all for your suggestions, I will have a look at used thinkpads or tuxedos. Scratches never bothered me.
You are all very helpful!
Personally I would try to get a ThinkPad from a bankruptcy auction or similar, I got my T15 for around $600.
any recent laptop (or even older stuff) would work pretty well with linux. just make sure that you can have access to the BIOS or UEFI. I personally like AMD hardware, but Intel and Nvidia work just as well.
if you can afford it, System 76, Framework, or other linux first manufacturers are nice, but otherwise any normal laptop should work.
If you’re bringing it to school, consider the weight and size, also the backpack you’ll put it in. Big screen is good, but more annoying to carry around. I have a tiny 13" that I bring between home and work, which works great, because apart from meetings, I never actually use the screen. Might consider the keyboard too, but unless you go apple, I feel like laptop keyboards are always gonna be “eh”
Guild Wars 2 works without issue, though if that’'s specifically what you want to play, Guild Wars 2 works better with a good CPU and an SSD, whereas the GPU would be good but doesn’t need to be great. That of course depends game per game, just I know that Guild Wars 2 specifically relies a lot on the CPU, and without a SSD it will stutter.
g14 6800s open box is 800 atm at bestbuy , if you’re in the US I don’t think that deal can be beat.
But we’d need to know your budget, and some more of your requirements to help more.
If you dont care about gaming, then an old thinkpad would last you the rest of your life.
Anything by Lenovo usually works well with Linux. Make sure it’s doesn’t have Nvidia card but rather AMD graphics or intel graphics.
They are also typically the cheapest laptops. Try get Intel core i5 or Ryzen 5 CPU. That should be enough power to do anything you need.
As far as OS is concerned, I HIGHLY recommend Ubuntu desktop. It is by far the best Linux distro and especially good for programming as huge amounts of programmers use it as the desktop of choice.
Ubuntu also makes the most Software when it comes to cloud, servers, apps, IOT etc and they all work well together. Which is why Devs/programmers love Ubuntu so much.
when it comes to cloud, servers, apps, IOT
I would say that’s all you want to stay away from at the beginning. 😁
Have you seen NixOS? I heard alot of devopers use nix and silver blue. Ubuntu is very common in the server space tho.
Thinkpads are absolute tanks and support Linux quite well. Would shy away from the T470 and T480 though. The touchpad on those isn’t really well implemented. If you don’t care about reliability my Surface Laptop Go does Fedora Silverblue 38 really well.
Linux is the correct (and only) choice for programmers. 99.9% of the internet runs on Linux. When you get a job, you’ll most likely deploy to Linux servers. Other people (MacOS/Winblows) will spend a significant amount of time trying to emulate a Linux environment.
My daily driver is a Dell XPS 13 9310. The build and finish is pretty good. All the hardware works out of the box.
I also used a Lenovo X1 Carbon for a few years. Also very good. I think the speakers sounded better on the X1 compared to the XPS. I think at this point all the hardware is supported by the latest kernel. When I had it, I think I had to wait for microphone support because the X1 had some fancy array of microphones. Eventually the software support caught up though.
Not recommend: I’ve also tried a System76 laptop. I quickly returned it because the build quality felt super cheap and I had a dead pixel. I also didn’t like that the power adapter was a barrel plug. (Although, yes, you can also charge with USB-C, but then you still have a useless barrel plug.)
Not recommend: Framework laptops. They seem cool, and they are, but the build quality is not as good as the XPS or the X1 Carbon. Also, the biggest reason to avoid Framework is due to the poorly supported HiDPI display. This goes for all laptops, by the way.
Finally, I’d also like to mention to be successful in Linux, you have to adopt a different mindset too. If you go into Linux expecting MacOS or expecting Winblows, you’re going to be disappointed. Linux is Linux. It’s great for computer science. It’s not great for video/image editing, music production, gaming. Sure, technically you can find a way to run those apps, but it’s not going to be the best experience. Similarly, it doesn’t make sense for me to go to MacOS and complain that I can’t use systemd or LUKS.
tl;dr
- Linux is the right choice, can’t avoid it.
- I’d recommend the Dell XPS 13 or the Lenovo X1 Carbon.
- Avoid HiDPI displays (unless you want to debug issues and still end up with slightly fuzzy apps)
- Avoid NVIDIA
- Different tools for different jobs
I disagree with your take on the framework. The inferior build quality alone is not a good enough reason to say they aren’t worth it over an X1 Carbon or XPS. Neither of those offer easy repairability and the XPS has atroucious IO.
I use a Framework and have run it primarily using Plasma Wayland and Hyprland. Both of these have had fantastic HiDPI support. Both can scale Wayland and Xwayland apps seperately so that you do not have any fuzziness and both support Wayland’s newest fractional scaling protocol.
If you’re running a modern distro (one with good wayland support), you should have no problem with hidpi. The more recent comments in the thread you linked support this.
Consider the Framework laptops!
It all depends and your budget and priorities. If you care about coreboot and Intel ME, go with system76 or an old thinkpad. Otherwise, Dell latitudes and new thinkpads are sufficient. Based on your description, I think system76 would be the way to go, but you might also want to check out a thinkpad p52.
check out Tuxedo laptops. they’re made for Linux so you won’t have driver issues. you can use their distro or any other
they’re not cheap, but form what i’ve read/heard the build quality is very good. they’re from germany
