the constitution is just a flimsy piece of paper if nobody decides to enforce it
I doubt he cares about actually ending birthright citizenship, he cares about being seen to be ending it. He’s all about image, the worse the better. If the courts prevent it, or a later administration undoes his order, that’s their problem, not his.
Well supreme court will allow parts of it to go through. Like children of unauthorized immigrants.
But, I’m gonna be optimistic and say that I think children legal immigrants will have birthright citizenship.
his string-pullers want this scotus to rule against the inevitable lawsuits.
The Supreme Court already ruled against birthright citizenship. The 14th Amendment was written to overturn their decision.
- He doesn’t care about Constitutionally-protected rights
- He’ll do this anyways, because it tees up a Supreme Court case on a fast track, or Congress just lets it happen.
- He wins either way
3b. He loves having these fights because he can say ‘BUT THE IMMIGRANTS’ and MAGA, because they don’t actually understand anything about the American constitution or law, will back him because they’ll believe it’s just a bunch of liberals protecting criminal aliens.
The Supreme Court already ruled against birthright citizenship. The 14 Amendment overturned their decision. And Congress doesn’t have a say in the matter, because a constitutional amendment has to be approved by a supermajority of the states.
I get that people are in a bleak mood, but there are limits to what Trump and republicans can do.
I LOVE the Constitution!*
*When it’s used to DEFEND CHILD KILLERS!
This feels like a Federalist Society test of an attack on the Constitution. If this works, and Trump can peel away Amendments, expect chaos. The 4th and 2nd will be taken early.
I’m surprised that the second would be even remotely considered. If the situation in the US itself isn’t enough, I have a hard time seeing that happen. But, a fascist is a fascist, and the playbook is clear enough.
Their people will get to keep guns, but don’t think queer people or immigrants will
Yes this is just noise, but if it were not, would this mean that all individuals born after adoption have to take citizenship exams and be naturalized? Even Bubba who’s family has been here since the French owned Louisiana?
Or is this a “grandfather clause” kinda thing?
I don’t think that birthright citizenship for the children of people not in the USA legally is as clearly established in the Constitution as some people say.
Fourteenth Amendment, Section 1:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
What’s unclear about this to you?
subject to the jurisdiction thereof
Personally I think it’s clear but this little clause leaves enough wiggle room for the current supreme court to effectively end it. Again I want to stress that I think it’s ridiculous, but legal reasoning being extremely flimsy hasn’t stopped them yet. Listen to a few five to four podcast episodes and you’ll find flimsier.
Flood v Kuhn might be the dumbest if not the most egregious decision. Basically professional baseball is immune to antitrust law because … one of the justices really liked it?
https://shows.acast.com/5-4-premium/episodes/60a43606b9651700192ddc69
Castle Rock v Gonzalez. Content warning, the circumstances of the case are dark. Basically even if a state law explicitly directs a police officer to protect someone, said officer can just not. No reason required. Because of tradition or some shit
https://shows.acast.com/5-4-premium/episodes/60a43606b9651700192ddc7d
To say nothing of cases like Buck v Bell, Plessy v Ferguson, etc.
subject to the jurisdiction thereof
It will be interesting (and terrifying) to see what kind of legal knots they tie themselves into to argue that immigrants are not subject to the law when it comes to protections but are subject to the law when it comes to enforcement.
It is perfectly clear, and the wording leaves no interpretation to it.
bro really being a 🤡
Read more constitution, not 4chan
Dictators want to dictate. Fuck the rules.
IIRC, birthright citizenship isn’t quite as cut and dried as it seems. My ex-spouse worked in a passport office, and there are some weird rules about things like how many years you have to have lived in the US depending on exactly where you were born and to which parents. I don’t remember all of them, but it’s not quite as cut-and-dried as “you’re a US citizen if you were born in the US”; you also have to be subject to US jurisdiction. So if you’re born in the US, but are raised entirely outside of the US, IIRC you might not be a citizen.
Everyone born on US soil is, by law, a US citizen. If you are within US territory, you are subject to US jurisdiction. That’s how jurisdiction works in every country on earth. The 14th Amendment does not carve out exceptions. You can be born here, and raised elsewhere, and still a US citizen. You remember wrong, and it is as cut and dried as it seems.
Not every country gives citizenship to people born there.
There are two basic models:
- citizenship by soil
- citizenship by blood
In some countries you can be a 3rd or 4th generation resident but not have citizenship if none of your ancestors had citizenship.
In other countries you can be a citizen even if neither you nor any of your parents or grandparents actually lived in the country, but you have an ancestor who did.
Yes, but I didn’t say that’s how citizenship works in every country.
Fascists used Ignore Civil Rights
The Constitution doesn’t regard civil rights.
Try knowing what words mean before you use them.
The Constitution restricts the power of the government. In this case, the 14th Amendment was created to restrict the power of the Supreme Court, which had already ruled that former slaves were not US citizens.
Don’t lecture me about knowing what words mean, when you don’t even know why the 14th Amendment exists.
God, dumb people are the worst. Some fuckers can’t even Google.
Nice rebuttal
Again - I don’t believe that’s correct. It a pregnant woman went into labor prematurely while vacationing in the US, and had a baby here, I don’t believe that child would be a US citizen.
If you are traveling in the US on a visa, and your child is born while you are here, your child is a US citizen by birthright. Whether you believe that to be correct or not doesn’t really matter.
Wow why would you so confidently lie about this?
Why pretend like our rights don’t exist?
Is there some kind of consent you are trying to manufacture?
The exact terms of birthright citizenship are laid out in the 8 U.S.C. § 1401; the way that this is interpreted is up to courts.
According to US statute, if Barack Obama had been born outside of the US (he was born in Hawai’i) to his American mother while she was not married to his Kenyan father (…and they were married at the time he was born) , he still would have been a natural born citizen according to 8 U.S.C. § 1409.c, because she was both a citizen and had resided in the US for at least one year.
Rights are rarely absolute, or nearly as cut and dry as people claim. For instance, the freedom of the press has been interpreted to not include material that is obscene. Freedom of peaceable assembly requires that you pay a fee and get a permit. The right to keep and bear arms has been determined to not include things like buying surface-to-air missiles from Victor Bout. Up until Escobedo v. Illinois (1964), despite the 6th amendment saying that you have the right to “have the Assistance of Counsel for [your] defence [sic]”, indigent suspects were not provided with an attorney (…and what use is and enumerated right if you lack the ability to exercise the right?). Under fairly recent court rulings, you must explicitly invoke your 5th amendment right to remain silent; simply being silent is insufficient.
Do I think that Trump is going to be able to revoke the citizenship of people that were born here to undocumented immigrants? No. Do I want him to? Also no. Do I want to see his mass deportations blow up in his face and implode the economy? Oh yeah, definitely. I want people–Trump MAGAts–to see just how much we rely on the underpaid labor of the undocumented people in this country for the necessities of life.
What you fail to understand is you acting like this right is revokable manufacturers consent for revoking rights.
If you were smart you wouldn’t play devil’s advocate, you wouldn’t help the devil
It’s called steel-manning, and it’s an important way of testing your own claims. You want to make the best possible argument for you opponen’t beliefs, and then be ready with a strong counterargument. …Which does assume good-faith, rational disagreement.
At this point if you don’t want to acknowledge that arguing in bad faith is a bad thing to do then you have already chosen your side.
Of course it’s a bad thing. But I want my side to work in good faith rather than assuming that everything they disagree with is bad faith. I don’t want to be associated with ppl that are also acting largely in bad faith; I want to be better than that.
