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I have a suspicion that Klingons would consider not being your true self dishonorable, so of course they’d be accepting of trans people.
edit: It looks like there’s a Romulan petaQ among us. Your bigotry will not serve you well here.
Probably. I also believe that they would truly honor someone who went through a difficult, painful journey in order to realize - and become - who they really are.
The Bat’leth knows no gender, only blood.
If anyone had a problem it might be the Ferengi watching (Fe)Males putting on clothes and doing business, but they’d just figure out a fine to levy and keep the latinum moving.
Gross. I don’t feel like looking up what this implies
Ferengi women are little more than slaves, and (apart from rare exceptions) not allowed to wear clothing.
Yeah I gathered that. Thanks for saving me the trouble of not looking it up. What 15 year old wrote that bs?
It’s worth pointing out that Grand Negus Rom led sweeping changes in Ferengi society largely inspired by the business acumen of his beloved Moogie and to a lesser extent his wife, Leta.
Hey, you have to credit Grand Nagus Zek for starting those reforms!
(Of course, that was also at the bidding of Moogie, but still.)
Ferengi were originally written to be a villain race when Roddenberry was directly running TNG, but they ended up testing comical to audiences, originally they were very 60’s free love era coded villains, wearing fur, using space whips, and of course absurdly misogynistic, They also sinffed around like animals, and hooted and hollarded very barbarically, and they weren’t into Rikeresk Polyamory AT ALL, the no clothes thing was a really early line of dialog where a ferengi says “disgusting, they cloth their women, inviting you to disrobe them” or some stupid shit like that. DS9 retconed the Ferengi A LOT, showing the first ferengi female, which was just a slightly shorter ferengi with smaller ears. I always kinda hoped they’d explain woman never leaving Ferengiar, or their homes by having them be very dysmorphic to the males, like huge and immobile physiologically, because aliens. but they mostly made ferengi a comic relief race, they’re kookie! but eventually Moogie controls ferenginar through two puppet Grand Negus. At first the culture shock causes a lot of backlash, but once clothing companies realize they can expend their markets by some 50% of local on planet business everyone stop caring.
That’s the stupidest shit I ever read.
What 15 year old wrote that bs?
I don’t know, but there’s a pattern of Rick Berman having something to do with sexist takes in Star Trek. It’s complicated, and there’s a lot of hear-say. And I think there ought to be some credit given all around for Trek generally being progressive for it’s time.
But it seems like more of the issues seemed to happen when Rick Berman was involved, at least in the TNG, DS9 era:
Rick Berman certainly worked to pull down the franchise. To be clear, though, Ferengi society was not a sexist take. It was a negative depiction of a sexist society. You were never supposed to watch an episode and come away thinking “man, those Ferengi really have it all figured out.”
You were never supposed to watch an episode and come away thinking “man, those Ferengi really have it all figured out.”
Yeah. Certainly.
It still stands out as a weird artistic choice, I think. We see this extreme take on sexism, but it’s a long time before we get a female Ferengi protagonist shown overcoming it.
Depends on where they’re hypocritical or not. In real life, queer culture is entirely about making less restrictive laws regarding morality. The “small government” types should absolutely be locking arms at Pride Parades, but the Pride Gadsden is a rarity.
As a “small government” anarcho socialist, I kind of agree but maybe not in all topics
Dealing with the Breen has made people a lot more open to the idea that gender is only a concept.
When you have an entire culture whose gender is hidden by armor they never remove…
You think an empire that is extremely sexist to the point where they let a Ferengi be a leader of a noble house before a woman would be super accepting of trans issues?
She may have overacted. Once Gowron became aware of the situation, he addressed her directly and assured her we would honor her rights to the house. She may have not needed The Bravest Ferengi to get involved, but it didn’t help her being understood.
…Yes? Because I stated exactly why I feel it fits with the Klingon ethos? Outside of combat, Klingons don’t generally favor deception, so why would a trans woman trying to pretend she’s a man not be looked at as dishonorable? Besides, Grilka couldn’t be the leader of the House because (as far as the Klingons knew) Kozak died in combat which meant Quark had the right to be the head of the House. Had Quark admitted upfront that Kozak had gotten drunk and fallen on his own blade, he never would have been involved and Grilka would have been granted the House.
In the real world, it is entirely possible to be against gender but not sex (c.f. TERFs like J.K. Rowling) or to be against sex but not gender (c.f. how many gender reassignment surgeries are performed in Iran, where it’s culturally better to be a woman or trans-woman than it is to be a gay man).
That’s just one example. There are others.
A huge part of the Klingon civil war arc is that the Duras family had no male heir. They eventually just dig one out of the brothels. At no point is it considered a viable option for either of the sisters to openly lead.
When Worf wanted to get married to Jadzia, they needed Martok’s wife’s approval due to the extremely stratified gender roles. When they had trouble getting said approval, Martok basically said that it wasn’t his place to interfere and sort it out himself. A huge portion of the reason why Jadzia had trouble getting approval is because she doesn’t behave like you’d expect a Klingon women to. All of this friction is in spite of the fact that Martok is a lot more open minded than most other Klingons.
Klingon society is regressive in a million other ways. They are governed by a glorified aristocracy. Worf installed Martok as chancellor by killing Gowron in a casual death battle. They advised crusher to help Worf kill himselves when he was paralyzed. The society is still fairly religious. A popular coming of age ceremony involves repeatedly getting shocked with pain sticks.
All of that’s just off the top of my head. There’s probably more. The idea that Klingon society is ass backwards in a million different ways but super tolerant of trans individuals stretches all belief and feels more akin to Tumblr headcanon than any actual reality.
My dude, your lame Tumblr insult aside, you’re still conflating discrimination of sex with discrimination of gender. Yes Klingon society is sexist in a lot of ways, but that doesn’t necessitate that they’re genderist too, because 1) despite what conservative ideology believes sex and gender aren’t the same thing, and 2) you’re attempting to square that circle using human logic with a species that isn’t. I gave you an example of each situation that exists on our current planet as is.
You’re also ignoring that L’Rell was Chancellor of the Empire and also that lots of female Klingons are shown in the military same as the males.
There is absolutely nothing in Klingon society that indicates that they’d be accepting of trans individuals. There are a million things in Klingon society that, while not explicitly anti trans, heavily hint at a society that would not be accepting.
I feel like you like Star Trek and want every aspect of it to be explicitly pro trans. However instead of just acknowledging that Klingons were portrayed as extremely regressive anyway, you invent a headcanon and grasp as straws to justify it.
I named my cat Dax after Jadzia. He’s a boy and we kept his first name from the adoption centre, so now he’s Nelson Dax - I thought about this very scene when we chose the name. Such a heartwarming exchange
If there are any trans people here, did that scene mean a lot to you when you saw it?
I am neither trans, nor would I ever presume to speak on behalf of trans people. The reason I posted this is because, over the years, this specific meme has been presented repeatedly as evidence that Klingons are excepting of trans folx.
As such, I think it’s safe to assume that, yes, it carries meaning of (at least some) importance.
In that, I hope my own presentation here is thusly interpreted as an expression of goodwill.
I guess I was more hoping to hear people’s stories about seeing that and what it meant to them when they first saw it. I like hearing how Star Trek inspires people and makes them feel more accepted.
Of course, sure. Sorry, I just wanted to clarify my motivation for posting, not to pre-empt anyone else from sharing!
Your post was appreciated by all, I’m sure.
Awww ❤️
Except for the stan I seem to have picked up. Downvotes everything of mine. Given the posts/comments they dont hit, I suspect they’re on either sh.it just.works or hexbear based on a pattern analysis of which instances I post in and which instances are defederated from them.
I read a book about the realization that 50% of other people won’t like you, won’t like what you say, your style or whatever. That’s true to life and always good to have in your mind, so you don’t let everything get on a personal level to you.
But there’s always that one special idiot that may also stan you.
/s sent with silly kindness
Yeah, well, fuck whoever’s downvoting. Bigots don’t count.
Both of my teenage children and I happen to be non-binary. The scene in Discovery where Adira is semi-asleep at a console and Culber comes in using the wrong pronouns to refer to Adira, and Stamets corrects him and tells him Adira uses they/them pronouns, and Culber shifts seamlessly into it and the two of them have an entire conversation about them…that scene legit had me squeeing. I’d never seen such an exchange happen in any show, and it was perfection. It was meant to show well-meaning allies who struggle with gender-neutral pronouns how simple they are to use and how meaningful and important it is to honor them because the people who use them are important.
That’s awesome! I am really happy for you and your kids that Star Trek did that for you.
When I first saw this, I was in a different point in my life and didn’t know who I was (I only knew I was angry and miserable), and I loved that Kor immediately accepted her. It made sense to me. I don’t know if it was subconscious or not, I’ll probably never know.
But I know I really love this scene now, and I’m grateful to the show writers and producers for including it, especially after learning about the uphill battle they faced to integrate themes like this. Inclusion matters and makes a difference, even if stupid assholes complain. It’s a lovely scene, and I’m forever grateful.
Obligatory angry glare at Rick berman for personally standing in the way of true lgbtq representation allowing only scraps and subtext instead
It was really disappointing to learn what a colossal dick Berman is, but it did explain why he was almost completely absent in that DS9 documentary and why no one bothered to mention him. Yeah, terrible choice for a Trek (or any progressive program) showrunner.
I watched the episode recently where I think Dax is on trial for murder? And Sisko is waxing poetic about how he used to pick up chicks with Curzon (and can’t any more?) and then later he’s lamenting that if she were still Curzon he give them a nice punch in the mouth for being so frustrating (but now can’t punch his friend because she’s a woman)
I don’t mean to demean the show or the character Dax, but it was definitely a window into a time where the creators either couldn’t or didn’t want to consider Dax still being attracted to women, but also that it’s totally normal to want to punch your male friends but not your female friend.
Odo is Ace.
Kira, Laas, and the Female Changeling would assert otherwise…
And considering that he linked with just about any Changeling he met (including, literally, all of them at once), I believe the best assessment of Odo is that he’s pansexual.
Genderfluid does suit him better, or?
Gendersolid, most of the time
We never witnessed him change or express different genders himself.
What’s the gender of a bucket of fluid?
Whatever they identify as. Who are you to question that?
Settle down, Jimmy.
Haha. This Jimmy blocked me. Sensitive gonna sensitive.
you’re hallucinating. My name isn’t “Jimmy.” Try sobering up before you comment.
You may be fine with ignorance and bigotry. I will call it out when I see it.
If you don’t like that, leave.
He’s really not all that ace…
asexual people can still have sex and enjoy it, to my understanding it’s they lack sexual desire or a need for sex. It’s also on a spectrum, like most things
For me, it jumps wildly around the spectrum in between a few hours. It’s emotionally exhausting.
Yes, that’s called “getting horny”.
