I get that it’s open source provided you use codium not code but I still find that interesting
Because the hate is based on their shitty OS. They did a fairly good job with VSCode. Our hate isn’t blind.
Not hate in my case, but I don’t like ms and it’s because of the shit they have done in 90s and 2000s. Their current support of linux is not something I trust.
I was using Sublime Text for many years. Even after Atom came out I still used ST3. However, ST development is understandably slow compared to VSCode and it is now so far behind that loyalty isn’t enough of a reason to continue using it.
VSCode isn’t even that good, idk why people are obsessed with it.
For anything compiled, Jetbrains beats it 100:1, and for anything interpreted it’s a couple tiers better than Kate.
Personally, I won’t be losing sleep if I have to stop using VSCode.
Jetbrains IDEs are not free though are they?
I also quite like the light touch feel you get from code, I can use it for any language and am not going to have to navigate through hundreds of language specific features I don’t need unless I install them myself
Kate might do similar but I can’t imagine the extension pool is big enough to compete and I think at that point I’d just use a commandline editor instead
If jetbrains is that much better really depends on the language. Also, jetbrains shit is damn expensive, so not a fair comparison.
They have free ‘community editions’, I haven’t really found a need for a licence. I’ve only used IntelliJ, PyCharm, and
ReSharperthough.Edit: I meant rider but I was using a student licence for it anyway.
IntelliJ and PyCharm are the only JetBrains IDEs with community editions. If you want to use CLion for example, you’ll either have to be a student or you have to pay.
or the project being opensource(it’s i read right now) don’t know how it work tho
VSCode is a modern emacs. Similar concept, a single editor to do everything via extensions. That’s the selling point. “young people” never had the chance to work with a similar concept, this is why they found it so revolutionary (despite being a concept from the 70s).
I use it because I am forced to use a windows laptop at work, and emacs on windows is a painful experience
How dare you! Emacs is modern emacs!
Ahahah, emacs is immortal
I write small scripts in NeoVim and larger projects in VSCodium because it provides most of what I need and doesn’t consume a lot of resources. It’s a good tool, you can also use forks or alternatives, and i think that’s the spirit of open source, isn’t it?
I also have been trying Kate, works greats and with even better performance.
I like VSCode because I can run it in a development container and because its the only FOSS IDE with an extension for IEC 61131-3 ST that I am aware of
Right tool for the right job. Like I use VSCode for PowerShell on AWS Windows boxes over SSH, works great. But for Python or Terraform, JetBrains Suite is just better in everyway.
Your daily reminder that VSCode is shit not because of telemetry (take your time foil hat off for one second and hear me out and I say that jokingly with love) but because the extension marketplace is not allowed to be accessed by third party tools (INCLUDING CODIUM) and even then many of the extensions are proprietary, closed source. You’re not even allowed to distribute compiled VSIX files. It’s disgusting. Reading about the troubles gitpod faced that led to the (now) Eclipse Marketplace (idk the name, but it’s for VS Code plugins, don’t be tricked, it’s just owned by Eclipse foundation) is disheartening.
Oh shit really? I knew their debugger was locked down didn’t know extensions were
Codium seems to have all the same extensions though, has someone else just setup their own marketplace?
Yeah, there is an open marketplace. It’s the one Codium uses by default. The problem is there’s no way for the controllers to just mirror everything because of the licenses. Also some of the extensions don’t work with Codium even if you download manually from the website because of bullshit like tweaking the name or whatever.
I’ll be interested to see how JetBrains’s Fleet works out. I like Rider a lot more than full Visual Studio (also Rider is actually available on Linux).
VSCode is an open source IDE. Its biggest rival is the JetBrains suite. When the alternatives are proprietary, VSCode is a win.
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Python extension
Remote SSH is the one that I need.
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Aren’t those features just telemtry and the plugin store (for which there is an open source replacement btw)
Live share, remoting (running over ssh or other) and settings sync are both absent from codium, they’re the ones I know of
Can’t you just install a plugin for ssh?
I don’t think so, it runs a client and a server version of VS code so all extensions, settings, debug config etc work on the target machine as if native.
Seems like a core feature a plugin wouldn’t be able to implement properly
Obviously you can run ssh in the terminal or you could network mount the filesystem somehow but it’ll be way jankier
Someone on Reddit said that this plugin works apparently. Can’t test it myself rn tho.
Lack of SSH would be a deal breaker for me.
You can obviously SSH from the terminal but unless you use some external solution you can’t open folders on remote machines in the ide
Most of Jetbrain’s tools have community editions as well.
The community editions are still proprietary, and they put the most useful tools behind the paywall.
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Let me google that for you, Jetbrains provides a convenient list: https://www.jetbrains.com/products/compare/?product=pycharm&product=pycharm-ce
From the link you shared:
PyCharm community is amazing.
Have you tried any of the JetBrains products, they are great.
The jetbrains default hotkeys is in direct conflict to the “typical defaults” for hotkeys you see in the world
I know, they have keymaps for everything, including a VIM map and vim mode!
Defaults are very important.
I did for a few years. Eventually I had to switch to VSCode because any given Jetbrains product is only good at a single language, and constantly switching Jetbrains products is a nightmare. Now that I’ve been using VSCode for a while, there are some extension that are so critical to my workflow Jetbrains is virtually useless to me without them.
Have you tried JetBrains Fleet yet?
You’re the second person to say this and it’s just wrong. With the Ultimate Edition, you can install the plugins for whichever languages you want and stick to a single editor without switching.
Yeah, I mean, if it works better for you, then good on you 😎 I mostly just stick to Python and Terraform. I used their GoLand IDE for a while, it was nice. What extensions are ya using? I’ve seen a lot of embedded folks really like VSCode.
Most extensions have good equivalents. Other languages like Julia are VSCode only. Fortran was the language that really made me jump ship, PyCharm’s Fortran extension is barely syntax highlighting. Remote - SSH is the killer though, it is a beautifully made and essential tool for working with remote systems.
Most importantly, PyCharm doesn’t really have any killer features or extensions that makes it essential.
Yeah, their extensions are okay, but it’s mostly what you get in the box. The remote SSH is sooo nice, I use it everyday for PowerShell from my Mac to Windows boxes. Yeah, I definitely get that for something like Fortran. I used to do LUA a ton back in the day, and it was the only good IDE for it.
Make something better and I’ll switch to it
Neovim
I rather use notepad++ masterpiece
ITT people having their minds blown by the fact the creator and the creation are two different things.
I hate Google but they gave us Go, Kubernetes. I hate Amazon but they gave us AWS. I plainly hate those companies, but adore the brilliant engineers that work there.
This is a very very good answer, and perfectly portrays my feelings, as well.
You use whatever works best for you. Microsoft Lens, on Android, is still unmatched for scanning, correcting perspective, and cleaning up whiteboards. No OSS tool comes close - and, believe me, I tried to use others (or, other; I think OpenScan is the only thing that attempts something similar). It would be foolish to not use a tool that you like using and doesn’t have any hidden consequences, merely because of on opinion.
I don’t think VSCode is particularly good, myself, but the point remains: it’s free, I haven’t heard anything about it surreptitiously sending info to MS, and if it works for people, then great.
I think the proprietary version MS distributes does send telemetry data to them but I personally just use VSCodium, which is based on the open source VS Code version.
Probably. I have no doubt that Lens (the aforementioned tool I used to use) does. In the career I had, I had to give up the telemetry, because I had to use Lens. There is literally no practical alternative. Sometimes, you just have to pay that cost. Heck, I’d have bought a telemetry-free alternative from someone else if it worked as well, and if anyone offered one. Which they don’t.
I’m beating that dead horse because it baffles me everytime I think about it that, in a veritable app ocean of calculator, chat, and everything else, Lens is apparently unique.
Is Lens just an app to scan documents using only your phone camera or does it something else that makes it so useful? I sometimes need to scan stuff like that too but haven’t find something good that’s open source.
Lens is, among other things, a camera app that recognizes whiteboards, auto-crops to the whiteboard, and auto-corrects the perspective. It can also clean the image, removing smudges and dry-erase dirt, and do basic color adjustment and B/W conversion. It’s designed specifically for whiteboards, but works on documents. And then, when the image is cleaned, it makes sharing via email directly from the app particularly easy - sure, it only removes 2 or 3 clicks, but it does streamline the process.
It’s pretty amazing at what it does. When you’re in a tight space and have to take a picture of a whiteboard at some absurdly acute angle, it works miracles. I’ve never had it not impress a coworker who’s never seen it do its thing.
I don’t know who MS acquired to get it, but it’s simply a fantastic program with no competition.
I don’t like using proprietary software but this does sound really useful. In school I take my notes on a laptop but oftentimes I need to take pictures of sheets or the whiteboard to put it in my notes, which always looks really bad. I might check this out for that purpose. I tried to find something open source that could do this but haven’t found anything either.
Believe me, I’ve tried many times over the years to find an alternative; no dice. However, if you do find something, please try to remember me!
I agree with being pragmatic, but the opinion of hating Microsoft isn’t unfounded. There are pragmatic reasons to avoid building up and entrenching yourself in tooling that doesn’t respect you as a user or is controlled by companies that has interests that don’t align with yours.
I didn’t say iy was wrong to hate Microsoft. I said that it’s silly to ignore the best tool on only principle. You might not want it because it costs money, or collects telemetry, or because you want to avoid vendor lock-in; these are all reasons that have a grounded cost, even if the yool is best in class. But just because you don’t like the company itself?
If MS took VS Code away tomorrow, devs would switch to something else. That’s a cost I’m not willing to pay, but if they are… eh. If Microsoft took Lens away, well, we’re fucked, because the OSS community has not offered any solution that works better than just taking a picture and cleaning it up in GIMP.
VSCode is the only Electron program I know of that does not feel like using McDonald’s kiosk on virtual machine over remote desktop.
I’m thinking of making an Android app with electron (NC I don’t know Java Kotlin whatever lmao) is performance that bad?
Electron is for desktops OSes, so I think SE are talking about different things.
And it’s not only about performance, even when that programs are running on best machines it still looks like alien and not fit.
I only use vim.
i have been trapped for 2 years now… hope seems pointlessyou get trapped in Vim because you dont know how to exit.
i get trapped because ive sunk so much time configuring
May your vimrc be passed down through the ages
Its all I’m leaving my kids
😂
This is so true
Agreed to the latter point. The only reason why I might not use vim is to copy-paste some code in and out of the file, in which case I prefer plain text editors.
With that said, I’m a purist who uses vim without any external plug-ins (other than the files I wrote myself in
ftplugin). Use vim on a remote machine whilst SSHed into it from a windows machine and wanting to copy-paste stuff in and out is a major pain which is why I downloaded Vscode in the first place. This piece of cancer is not touching my linux machine.based asl for using vim without plugins. although what is difficult about copy/pasting? i think u can get vim to use the system clipboard with a command
Indeed, however I’m using Windows as the host, whilst SSHed into my development machine.
Yes, integration with the system clipboard does make things somewhat easy. I would still use a simple GUI text editor if I was using my mouse though (like copying from a website using a mouse).
I feel like this is backwards and
netrwis The Way.I use
treeon the terminal if I want a tree view. I do all of my file management directly, it just feels more intuitive. I understand the point ofnetrwthough
My bigger problem is many swear on FLOSS, but using Apple is OK. Go to a FLOSS conference and there are Macs everywhere.
It’s undeniable that Microsoft has had positive influences on the opensource world with language servers, debug adapter protocol, an inbrowser editor that is seemingly embedded in any website with a code editor, cross-platform C# (maybe that’s a curse though, I dunno), linux contributions, and probably more I’m not aware of. Apple… I dunno. Vendor lock-in and more electronic trash?
Apple isn’t okay. Apple is forced onto developers. The general population using Apple products requires developers to use Macs. And, last time I checked, it’s a lot easier carrying around one laptop than two. It also doesn’t hurt that Apple products aren’t exactly the quality of off-brand Chinese laptops.
I hope EU slaps Apple hard for abusing their market position in this. I’ve seen it happen in several companies I’ve worked in. Developers prefer Linux, but it’s the only machine you can build for all target platforms, so… macbooks it is.
Plenty of developers prefer Macs to anything else. Forcing developers to use Macs for iOS development isn’t okay though.
Plenty of developers prefer Macs to anything else.
Of course. They are pretty great battery wise. UX and OS is however inconsistent, buggy and frustrating. I had expected “annoying design decisions”, but not wrong and buggy ones.
The general population using Apple products requires developers to use Macs
They are 20% of the laptop/desktop owners? 25%? A dev is most likely going to be writing backend software to run on a linux platform on some server somewhere or write a web application (for the browser or electron). How many devs are actually going to be writing mac-native applications?
Apple does have some open source contributions. One example is CUPS, which was made by Apple and is now used by most modern Linux distros for managing printers. If you want more examples you’ll have to ask someone who actually likes Apple, I’m sure they can think of more.
There’s also Webkit, which a few foss browsers (ie gnome web, and whatever kde’s browser is called) use instead of Chromium or Gecko, and Swift, a c++ based language that I haven’t personally seen used much outside of iOS development.
I don’t like Apple tho (:
While Apple have contributed to WebKit, they did not make it. It started as a fork of KHTML, a KDE project.
Not everything Apple is bad but iMessage is an active annoyance and so is their walled garden approach. It’s a bit like looking at someone you hate and talking about how that one time they brought a pie to the pot luck at work.
is that a typo of FOSS or is FLOSS something else?
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cross-platform C#
Sure it’s cross platform, but it lacks feature parity with the Windows version. And the development experience is lacking on Linux. It’s not even that they haven’t brought everything over, it’s that they’ve even removed features, like hot-reload, from Linux.
Do you think Microsoft removed features from their language because they hate Linux? Or do you think maybe the way syscalls and the filesystem work are different in Linux and that makes hot reload a bit of an engineering problem?
We can never know, but I’m guessing Microsoft didn’t port their language to Linux just to shoot themselves in the foot. On the other hand, it is Microsoft.
I think Apple is supposedly meant to be more respectful of privacy, which to be fair I haven’t heard of much scandal around user data from apple, they have other issues though
Well… Whenever that statement is said, there is a pretty significant caveat: the data collection done by apple itself is ignored.
They had an Ad network. I’m not sure how that’s supposed to “respect your privacy”. They’re very good at marketing, I’ll give them that.
Didn’t know about that. I don’t use any apple stuff and know nothing about how they operate except what I hear online
I was using Atom, but that died. I work with both Python and Fortran, and VSCode works for my usecase, but I’m open to suggestions.
Pulsar was forked from Atom and lives on!
I almost see Pulsar as the anti-VSCode/Microsoft in a way. Microsoft slowed development and killed Atom in order to promote use of VSCode. Instead of letting it die we decided to keep it alive and offer it as a viable alternative. So in some sense it almost exists just to spite Microsoft’s attempts to kill it.
Didn’t know about this, will definitely give this a shot. There’s also Lapce, which doesn’t use Electron and looks promising.
Nice! I used atom for about a year before it was discontinued and switched to just using Kate. Definitely going to have to checkout pulsar, thanks for dropping it here.
