I get that it’s open source provided you use codium not code but I still find that interesting
Because the hate is based on their shitty OS. They did a fairly good job with VSCode. Our hate isn’t blind.
Not hate in my case, but I don’t like ms and it’s because of the shit they have done in 90s and 2000s. Their current support of linux is not something I trust.
I hate Google but they gave us Go, Kubernetes. I hate Amazon but they gave us AWS. I plainly hate those companies, but adore the brilliant engineers that work there.
This is a very very good answer, and perfectly portrays my feelings, as well.
Yet most project uses GitHub too you know…
This one is a bigger issue. One of the projects I used to contribute to moved to Gitlab, and saw a significant decrease in organic contributors. GitHub simply has more users, better SEO, and a better ecosystem
Personally, I’d like for everything to be on Codeberg or something but I guess that’s far away.
True but GitHub wasn’t always Microsoft and at least in my experience moving between git providers is a pain
How is it a pain? You just change the origin on your existing project, and new projects you just use the new one to start with.
The pain is with the migration of a ci/cd template to another
You gotta change the origin on every deployment you have. Update environment vars, reconfigure tools. You have to port all your PRs over somehow. Your issues. Your documentation. All the access keys. Etc.
I only use vim.
i have been trapped for 2 years now… hope seems pointlessyou get trapped in Vim because you dont know how to exit.
i get trapped because ive sunk so much time configuring
May your vimrc be passed down through the ages
Its all I’m leaving my kids
😂
This is so true
Agreed to the latter point. The only reason why I might not use vim is to copy-paste some code in and out of the file, in which case I prefer plain text editors.
With that said, I’m a purist who uses vim without any external plug-ins (other than the files I wrote myself in
ftplugin). Use vim on a remote machine whilst SSHed into it from a windows machine and wanting to copy-paste stuff in and out is a major pain which is why I downloaded Vscode in the first place. This piece of cancer is not touching my linux machine.based asl for using vim without plugins. although what is difficult about copy/pasting? i think u can get vim to use the system clipboard with a command
Indeed, however I’m using Windows as the host, whilst SSHed into my development machine.
Yes, integration with the system clipboard does make things somewhat easy. I would still use a simple GUI text editor if I was using my mouse though (like copying from a website using a mouse).
I feel like this is backwards and
netrwis The Way.I use
treeon the terminal if I want a tree view. I do all of my file management directly, it just feels more intuitive. I understand the point ofnetrwthough
VSCode is the only Electron program I know of that does not feel like using McDonald’s kiosk on virtual machine over remote desktop.
I’m thinking of making an Android app with electron (NC I don’t know Java Kotlin whatever lmao) is performance that bad?
Electron is for desktops OSes, so I think SE are talking about different things.
And it’s not only about performance, even when that programs are running on best machines it still looks like alien and not fit.
At least use VSCodium which is VSCode without telemetry/tracking …
Unfortunately it’s not a drop in replacement. The biggest issue was certain extensions are not available on codium.
My bigger problem is many swear on FLOSS, but using Apple is OK. Go to a FLOSS conference and there are Macs everywhere.
It’s undeniable that Microsoft has had positive influences on the opensource world with language servers, debug adapter protocol, an inbrowser editor that is seemingly embedded in any website with a code editor, cross-platform C# (maybe that’s a curse though, I dunno), linux contributions, and probably more I’m not aware of. Apple… I dunno. Vendor lock-in and more electronic trash?
Apple isn’t okay. Apple is forced onto developers. The general population using Apple products requires developers to use Macs. And, last time I checked, it’s a lot easier carrying around one laptop than two. It also doesn’t hurt that Apple products aren’t exactly the quality of off-brand Chinese laptops.
I hope EU slaps Apple hard for abusing their market position in this. I’ve seen it happen in several companies I’ve worked in. Developers prefer Linux, but it’s the only machine you can build for all target platforms, so… macbooks it is.
Plenty of developers prefer Macs to anything else. Forcing developers to use Macs for iOS development isn’t okay though.
Plenty of developers prefer Macs to anything else.
Of course. They are pretty great battery wise. UX and OS is however inconsistent, buggy and frustrating. I had expected “annoying design decisions”, but not wrong and buggy ones.
The general population using Apple products requires developers to use Macs
They are 20% of the laptop/desktop owners? 25%? A dev is most likely going to be writing backend software to run on a linux platform on some server somewhere or write a web application (for the browser or electron). How many devs are actually going to be writing mac-native applications?
Apple does have some open source contributions. One example is CUPS, which was made by Apple and is now used by most modern Linux distros for managing printers. If you want more examples you’ll have to ask someone who actually likes Apple, I’m sure they can think of more.
There’s also Webkit, which a few foss browsers (ie gnome web, and whatever kde’s browser is called) use instead of Chromium or Gecko, and Swift, a c++ based language that I haven’t personally seen used much outside of iOS development.
I don’t like Apple tho (:
While Apple have contributed to WebKit, they did not make it. It started as a fork of KHTML, a KDE project.
Not everything Apple is bad but iMessage is an active annoyance and so is their walled garden approach. It’s a bit like looking at someone you hate and talking about how that one time they brought a pie to the pot luck at work.
is that a typo of FOSS or is FLOSS something else?
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cross-platform C#
Sure it’s cross platform, but it lacks feature parity with the Windows version. And the development experience is lacking on Linux. It’s not even that they haven’t brought everything over, it’s that they’ve even removed features, like hot-reload, from Linux.
Do you think Microsoft removed features from their language because they hate Linux? Or do you think maybe the way syscalls and the filesystem work are different in Linux and that makes hot reload a bit of an engineering problem?
We can never know, but I’m guessing Microsoft didn’t port their language to Linux just to shoot themselves in the foot. On the other hand, it is Microsoft.
I think Apple is supposedly meant to be more respectful of privacy, which to be fair I haven’t heard of much scandal around user data from apple, they have other issues though
They had an Ad network. I’m not sure how that’s supposed to “respect your privacy”. They’re very good at marketing, I’ll give them that.
Didn’t know about that. I don’t use any apple stuff and know nothing about how they operate except what I hear online
Well… Whenever that statement is said, there is a pretty significant caveat: the data collection done by apple itself is ignored.
VSCode isn’t even that good, idk why people are obsessed with it.
For anything compiled, Jetbrains beats it 100:1, and for anything interpreted it’s a couple tiers better than Kate.
Personally, I won’t be losing sleep if I have to stop using VSCode.
If jetbrains is that much better really depends on the language. Also, jetbrains shit is damn expensive, so not a fair comparison.
They have free ‘community editions’, I haven’t really found a need for a licence. I’ve only used IntelliJ, PyCharm, and
ReSharperthough.Edit: I meant rider but I was using a student licence for it anyway.
IntelliJ and PyCharm are the only JetBrains IDEs with community editions. If you want to use CLion for example, you’ll either have to be a student or you have to pay.
or the project being opensource(it’s i read right now) don’t know how it work tho
Jetbrains IDEs are not free though are they?
I also quite like the light touch feel you get from code, I can use it for any language and am not going to have to navigate through hundreds of language specific features I don’t need unless I install them myself
Kate might do similar but I can’t imagine the extension pool is big enough to compete and I think at that point I’d just use a commandline editor instead
VSCode is a modern emacs. Similar concept, a single editor to do everything via extensions. That’s the selling point. “young people” never had the chance to work with a similar concept, this is why they found it so revolutionary (despite being a concept from the 70s).
I use it because I am forced to use a windows laptop at work, and emacs on windows is a painful experience
How dare you! Emacs is modern emacs!
Ahahah, emacs is immortal
Right tool for the right job. Like I use VSCode for PowerShell on AWS Windows boxes over SSH, works great. But for Python or Terraform, JetBrains Suite is just better in everyway.
I write small scripts in NeoVim and larger projects in VSCodium because it provides most of what I need and doesn’t consume a lot of resources. It’s a good tool, you can also use forks or alternatives, and i think that’s the spirit of open source, isn’t it?
I also have been trying Kate, works greats and with even better performance.
I like VSCode because I can run it in a development container and because its the only FOSS IDE with an extension for IEC 61131-3 ST that I am aware of
Those that truly dislike MS and telemetry won’t.
If I’m using non-free it is Jet Brains.
I tend to use Kate, KDevelop.
MS still slurping code into Copilot from Github and telemetry in VSCode.
MS still slurping code into Copilot from […] telemetry in VSCode.
Would you happen to have a source for that? At a cursory glance, it looks like VSCode only does that if you’re using Copilot, but if you don’t have the extension installed they aren’t.
Unless Quake was made with Copilot, that seems very unlikely:
Your daily reminder that VSCode is shit not because of telemetry (take your time foil hat off for one second and hear me out and I say that jokingly with love) but because the extension marketplace is not allowed to be accessed by third party tools (INCLUDING CODIUM) and even then many of the extensions are proprietary, closed source. You’re not even allowed to distribute compiled VSIX files. It’s disgusting. Reading about the troubles gitpod faced that led to the (now) Eclipse Marketplace (idk the name, but it’s for VS Code plugins, don’t be tricked, it’s just owned by Eclipse foundation) is disheartening.
Oh shit really? I knew their debugger was locked down didn’t know extensions were
Codium seems to have all the same extensions though, has someone else just setup their own marketplace?
Yeah, there is an open marketplace. It’s the one Codium uses by default. The problem is there’s no way for the controllers to just mirror everything because of the licenses. Also some of the extensions don’t work with Codium even if you download manually from the website because of bullshit like tweaking the name or whatever.
“Most of us hate microsoft” is honestly a pretty bold claim. They’re just a company that makes software. The vast majority of the world’s Linux users–which is to say, professionals who build or manage software that runs in Linux–don’t care about them one way or another.
This sub might have an ideological skew, but you still don’t know what people in here think about Microsoft.
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No I hate MS. I won’t ever forget the pain that was developing edge cases around Internet Explorer (fuck IE 6, that shit was the worst).
To be fair, when ie6 came out it was a really good browser. The concept of evergreen browsers wasn’t broadly a thing back in 2001. Windows XP was a huge success and there was no way to convince the world to move off of it and many companies built their intranets specifically around ie6. I think it was Korea that built all their banking off of Active X.
I’m talking about the ideological skew
I’m an old OS/2 user. Count me as a Microsoft hater.
VSCode is an open source IDE. Its biggest rival is the JetBrains suite. When the alternatives are proprietary, VSCode is a win.
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Remote SSH is the one that I need.
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Python extension
Aren’t those features just telemtry and the plugin store (for which there is an open source replacement btw)
Live share, remoting (running over ssh or other) and settings sync are both absent from codium, they’re the ones I know of
Lack of SSH would be a deal breaker for me.
You can obviously SSH from the terminal but unless you use some external solution you can’t open folders on remote machines in the ide
Can’t you just install a plugin for ssh?
I don’t think so, it runs a client and a server version of VS code so all extensions, settings, debug config etc work on the target machine as if native.
Seems like a core feature a plugin wouldn’t be able to implement properly
Obviously you can run ssh in the terminal or you could network mount the filesystem somehow but it’ll be way jankier
Someone on Reddit said that this plugin works apparently. Can’t test it myself rn tho.
Most of Jetbrain’s tools have community editions as well.
PyCharm community is amazing.
The community editions are still proprietary, and they put the most useful tools behind the paywall.
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Let me google that for you, Jetbrains provides a convenient list: https://www.jetbrains.com/products/compare/?product=pycharm&product=pycharm-ce
From the link you shared:
Have you tried any of the JetBrains products, they are great.
I did for a few years. Eventually I had to switch to VSCode because any given Jetbrains product is only good at a single language, and constantly switching Jetbrains products is a nightmare. Now that I’ve been using VSCode for a while, there are some extension that are so critical to my workflow Jetbrains is virtually useless to me without them.
You’re the second person to say this and it’s just wrong. With the Ultimate Edition, you can install the plugins for whichever languages you want and stick to a single editor without switching.
Yeah, I mean, if it works better for you, then good on you 😎 I mostly just stick to Python and Terraform. I used their GoLand IDE for a while, it was nice. What extensions are ya using? I’ve seen a lot of embedded folks really like VSCode.
Most extensions have good equivalents. Other languages like Julia are VSCode only. Fortran was the language that really made me jump ship, PyCharm’s Fortran extension is barely syntax highlighting. Remote - SSH is the killer though, it is a beautifully made and essential tool for working with remote systems.
Most importantly, PyCharm doesn’t really have any killer features or extensions that makes it essential.
Yeah, their extensions are okay, but it’s mostly what you get in the box. The remote SSH is sooo nice, I use it everyday for PowerShell from my Mac to Windows boxes. Yeah, I definitely get that for something like Fortran. I used to do LUA a ton back in the day, and it was the only good IDE for it.
Have you tried JetBrains Fleet yet?
The jetbrains default hotkeys is in direct conflict to the “typical defaults” for hotkeys you see in the world
I know, they have keymaps for everything, including a VIM map and vim mode!
Defaults are very important.
You csn hate a company and like a product. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
This was a tough lesson for me to learn when Pirates of the Caribbean came out. 😠
I’ll just leave this right here.
Don’t use vscode, use vsCodium, all the goodness of vscpde with none of the sleezy ms tracking
The extension list is sorely lacking tho.
I mentioned vscodium. I believe many of the official extensions have telemetry too though
many of you hate Google yet I’m willing to bet most of you flashed a custom or foss android rom like lineageos to your devices.
Wait that’s a good thing?
Well it does seem a little hypocritical, no? I don’t hate any tech company, I’m heavily skeptical of them having our best interest, but I see value where value exists, if there’s a way to extract it/partition it from the company that makes it. Whatsapp for example, is still a decent app even though Facebook is awful. I even begrudgingly use Meta VR for stuff I can’t find on steam.
