I don’t know if Tolkien’s notes support this, but I always assumed that Treebeard’s Entish name was something completely unpronounceable for anyone who isn’t an ent, and “Treebeard” was a nickname that he picked for himself. Maybe because he finds it funny that other species think he looks like a tree. (I’m sure that ents look clearly different from trees to other ents.)
Edit: he says so himself.
Hrum, now, well, I am an Ent, or that’s what they call me. Yes, Ent is the word. The Ent, I am, you might say, in your manner of speaking. Fangorn is my name according to some, Treebeard others make it. Treebeard will do.
Fangorn is my name according to some
“Fangorn” means “Treebeard.”
In Sindarin (the most common Elvish language), not Entish.
So many get this backwards.
The languages (there are multiple, including historical languages that explain the transition into the modern languages) came first - by about 40 years.
He did not invent languages for his world. He invented a world to explain how his languages would come to exist.
“Treebeard some call me” - it’s a nickname
His actual name would likely take a month or longer to say.
It… takes… a great… deal… of time… to say… anything… in Old… Entish… and we Ents… never… say anything… unless… it is worth… taking… a long… time… to say…
Guy who walks around the forest: Strider.
Guy who betrays everyone to side with Sauron: Sauron-man.
Family who are very proud of their feet: Proudfeet
It keeps blowing my mind when I learn that other languages haven’t obfuscated the meanings of names behind two thousand years of linguistic divergence.
Your name almost certainly means something basic too, you just don’t remember what it is.
Yep. Some common names:
Steve ← Steven ← Stephanus ← στέφανος = crown (or wealth)
Linda ← -linde = tender, soft
James ← Iacomus ← Iacobus ← Ἰάκωβος ← Ἰακώβ ← יַעֲקֹב = heel, footprint / follow, watch, observe
Karen ← Catherine ← Αἰκατερίνη ← Ἑκάτη = one who works from far away (referring to a goddess)
And “Tiffany” may sound like a very 20th-century American name, but it actually dates back to the early 13th century and is based on a Greek word that’s even older. The “Tiffany Problem” is a really interesting phenomenon in the anthropological/perceptual space based on that.
Tiffany ← Tifinie ← Θεοφάνεια = “God’s arrival/appearance”
It’s also more closely related to the name “Natalie” than you might think, at least etymologically.
Natalie ←Natalia ←natale domini = “birth of the Lord” (Latin)
I knew about Tiffany because of that CGP Grey video, but Natalie is interesting too!
Nice. Yup, I learned about the Tiffany Problem from Grey as well, but picked up the tidbit about Natalie from being married to one.
Karen- one who complains to management
…in service of his fantasy epic.
This is wrong. The the histories, cultures, etc. were in service of the conlangs. Sure, he eventually wrote some stories set in that world, but that wasn’t the reason he created it.
Overt bad guy: Sauron
Secret bad guy: Saurumon
He also nearly named Celeborn Teleporno, which would have been
awfulamazing.Not “nearly.” That’s actually his name in the “pretranslated” language that the book was “originally” written in, within the fiction.
Sure… but Tolkien could tell you Treebeard’s name in hall a dozen languages he’d made up for his setting (or for fun, before the setting was a thing), including full etymologies.
Including Treebeard’s actual name in his own language. Treebeard is almost a joke name meant to show how primitive the humans are who called him that.
Hello, my name is Personface
You killed my father
Charles Gunhaver, reporting for duty. Rock, Rock on!
It’s kinda funny with anime and manga. They use Japanese names for a bunch of stuff like special martial arts techniques or special moves. Not knowing Japanese, the names sound cool and mysterious.
Learning the actual translations, Treebeard is pretty par for the course.
Like from Naruto, Sasuke uses the Copy Wheel Eye (sharingan), Hinyata uses the White Eye (byakugon), and Naruto’s big move is Spiral Sphere (rasengan). Copy Wheel Eye’s upgraded version is called Kalidoscope Copy Wheel Eye.
They aren’t horrible names, but they feel less cool.
Though it would be funny if Saitama has special moves that are just other languages saying “normal punch” or “serious punch”. “Hip bump with moderate vigor” or something.
Edit: fixed spelling of byakugon
In MMORPGs the Archer class usually has a skill called “Aimed Shot”.
(Joke incoming: That’s a stronger version of the skill “Unaimed Shot” where you just miss)
No. he just translated it into treebeard for localization for English speakers. educate yourself.
so many names could be translated from the original language they come from.
Larry? that’s City of Laurels
Remember president Helmet Head, he should have used an helmet (Kennedy)
Mount DOOM has entered the chat
Also, Shire just means Farm.
And all of the evil characters/places have Arabic or Germanic sounding names.
I love his work, but he was racist. Same thing with Lovecraft, though Lovecraft was more xenophobic because he rarely left the house, and foreigners were scary.
Which evil characters? Azog, Radbug, Morgoth, Sauron, Saruman. Not even remotely Germanic or Arab-sounding. Linguists have drawn comparison between Black Speech and ancient Mesopotamian languages, specifically Hurro-Urartian languages, which originated in what is now the Armenian Highlands. Again, not remotely Arabic, which is Semitic language. The only comparisons to Germanic languages I can think of in the Tolkien universe are dwarves and men.
If you’re gonna accuse a dead person of something awful, have your facts straight.
I had a professor that compared Black Speech to proto Germanic, so if that is completely incorrect I apologize for repeating it.
nah it’s cool. We’re all trying to chase that leftist capital.
Harad/Haradrim/ Swirters were basically Arabic/African dark skinned swarthy people that served as heroless bad guys, unless I missed out on something. https://share.google/GGo7jZXCys45ZC8W7
The Haradrim swore allegiance to Sauron after long years of oppression by the Númenóreans and conflict with Gondor, during which Sauron worked to seduce them to his side. However, not all of them joined Sauron. Many sided with the blue wizards. You could draw parallels to modern times; not all Russians support Putin, and not all Iranians support Khomeini.
It’s worth mentioning Dunlendings also went the same way after excessive Númenórean exploitation of their natural resources and resulting wars. They fought for Saruman (Sauron by proxy) alongside Uruk-hai in Helm’s Deep.
Of course the Haradrim were dark-skinned - they were from the southern hemisphere of Arda, the huge landmass south of Gondor and Mordor. Most of it is on or below the equator.
I knew someone that actually read the Silmarillion would be able to correct me. Thank you for the correction.
They were the scary evil guys that brought Oliphants into the battle.
To be fair, sounds a bit weird when you speak his name in portuguese…
