I have been looking at them a lot recently and they have a premium price is it worth it?
What does it look like when you want to upgrade? Like can you just swap out all parts over time and essentially it’s like having a custom desktop, but in small form factor.
Can you buy a base model and upgrade components over time?
Would it suit my use cases for it? Which are to run Linux, I have to use Windows as a Software Dev and so can’t do it on my main. Can I run Minecraft on Linux? I know, but I like that game it makes me happy to unwind.
I want to get more into cyber security related tasks and most likely increase my Darknet activities using Tails.
I have been running one for 2 years and next generation am going to do the thing they were designed to do and upgrade my laptop without throwing away the whole laptop. So for less than $1000 I will be upgrading to something that is faster than my desktop, and it’s portable.
The price tag is premium, at first, then it actually saves money.
Thanks for the reply.
That makes sense on it being premium at first but then the options are there to upgrade and repurpose old parts.
Totally, I’m not buying a new monitor, keyboard, speakers, webcam, or chassis. Just a new CPU and in this case RAM, as we made the switch from DDR4 to DDR5.
Imagine having to buy a new keyboard, mouse, monitor, and speakers, every time you wanted to upgrade your desktop. It’s the same thing.
I have a first Gen core i5 Framework 13. I’ve upgraded a couple components that weren’t so great on those units (hinge and speakers) and the upgrades were easy. Otherwise I’ve been pretty happy with it and haven’t felt a need to upgrade the mainboard yet
So you really can upgrade many parts. I never would have imagined hinges would be upgradable.
Yup, they took feedback from customers and have provided modified components for customers that want to purchase them. Speakers, hinges, screens, stiffer chassis. All able to be replaced with the included screwdriver and guides online.
I love mine I’ve had it over 2 years. It was a first-gen DIY Framework 13 and I ran into a faulty fan early on. I worked with their tech support and they sent a replacement fan under warranty. Took 5 minutes to put it in and all parts inside have QR codes that take you to the marketplace for replacements and repair instructions.
They do have official Linux support for Ubuntu and Fedora. I can attest to Linux Mint working well on it although I don’t use the fingerprint reader, which I’ve read has some issues on some distros.
As for upgradability, I’ve not needed to yet but you can just order a new motherboard and any other parts off their marketplace and drop it straight in. Should take around 20 minutes or so. I suspect this would take longer on the 16 since it is more complex.
Also, here is a link to the marketplace if you want to browse the parts. I think you could build one from scratch from here, but I think it would cost more that way. https://frame.work/marketplace
Thanks for the reply. I have made my mind up and it will be my next machine.
Thanks for pointing me to the marketplace too.
You’re welcome. I’m glad I could help.
You can indeed run Minecraft on Linux. In my opinion, it’s even easier than running it on Windows, since you can use your package manager to install openjdk instead of fishing around Oracle’s website to get the Java 17 graphical installer. I use Prism, which is a 3rd party launcher, and I’m loving the experience.
I’ve had my fw 13 since early Feb 2022. So far, I’ve replaced the hinges and upgraded to a new mainboard. (11th gen i5 to 12 gen i7 when it became my main PC).
I’ve redone the thermal paste on the 12th gen 2 times already to clean the fan out and have not had any problems opening things up. I open it up so often to tinker that the pull loop on the keyboard cable finally broke on me a few weeks ago.
My old mainboard is currently running my entire homlab. Opnsense, pihole, Plex, Kavita, audiobookshelf, foundry vtt, *arrs, unifi controller. I threw it into a 3d printed case and its been running fine without any issues.
I thought about upgrading to the fw16, but it’s too expensive for me to justify it. If I want to game I just plug into my eGPU. I don’t need my gaming system to be ultra portable.
I’ll probably upgrade again when they release a new ryzen mainboard that has USB 4 2.0 support so I can take advantage of the additional pcie bandwidth for my GPU.
I would reccomend the fw13 to anyone who is into customizing PCs or is passionate about repairability in the electronics they own.
Thanks for the reply. A few people have mentioned using your old board, when you upgrade, as a server and I like that idea a lot as it really does cut down on the waste when the parts can still serve a purpose even after you’ve upgraded.
The Framework laptops can be easily upgraded and/or repaired by just about anybody who can watch a YouTube video. It is indeed possible to buy a base model and then upgrade it later.
Keep in mind however that you can’t just replace the CPU, but you have to replace the whole mainboard. Other components can be swapped at will, like RAM, SSD, Display, camera and microphone module, hinges, … Then of course there are the modules that you can easily swap without even opening the laptop, and can give you different ports, card readers, storage or custom modules (diy projects for example).
The build quality is quite solid on my FW13, the keyboard is decent and the trackpad is quite good. I wouldn’t hesitate to buy another one if the need arises…
Thanks for the reply.
My decision has been made after this post. It will be my next laptop.
You’re welcome!
I’m pretty certain you won’t regret it!
I love the idea of Framework and I buy laptops that do what they do. But from MegaVendors™
For example my Dell has socketed RAM, now with 128GB in it. It has a socketed CPU and GPU “card” with a mobile Xeon and Quadro rtx 5000. 5 M2 drives inside and a 2.5in area. Battery is pluggable and changeable. The trackpad and keyboard are held in place by a few screws and ribbon cables like everything else. With a small Phillips screwdriver I can replace anything. WiFi card is socketed. Antennas are SMA connectors. I’ve replaced the shell even after a security inspection dropped and damaged the metal enclosure…
I buy it because I can upgrade it within limits as long as the upgraded parts play nice with the main board. A framework promises to do the same except allow a mainboard upgrade. But at that point you’re probably buying everything. How many times, going back to desktop days, have you upgraded the entire system’s motherboard and not the CPU, GPU, RAM, etc…
And at that point you’re really only reusing the shell and screen and battery. The stuff you interact with everyday that will deteriorate or get dirty. And battery has a finite lifespan. Makes sense to upgrade the package when those need upgrading.
I view the framework as a great solution for a picky system user. It’s not for upgrading. It’s for customizing while you have that system. Allowing the maker of 2 or 3 SKUs to sell 1000 different laptops. Versus a Dell that sells 1000 different SKUs doing that internally and some of them allow you to do it externally like mine.
I wish them the best and I may buy one next time I need a beefy laptop. But their current specs don’t come close to matching what I can do. And their parts don’t work for my use like physical 3 button trackpad for example. When they do, awesome. But then, why not just go with the Dell? Who will send a guy to me anywhere in the world for free to fix or swap hardware… ANYWHERE. And no it’s not a corporate purchase, I own it personally and the warranty is standard.
I may buy one to support them once their margins go up and the demand cools. But until then, unfortunately it doesn’t seem to solve an actual consumer problem. It solves a corporate SKU problem that fixes itself as you become a big company.
As a heads up, you can swap the mother board in a Framework. It is expensive for the newer higher end ones, but it is an option.
Yes I know. My point is that’s the ONLY benefit over a big brand that is socketed and upgradeable already. And having bought hardware capable of that for 20 years+, I’ve NEVER done it. Anytime I’m ready to upgrade the CPU or GPU, I generally upgrade both and the motherboard minimally. And for a laptop that is everything. The drives are standardized and socketed. The only thing you keep is the enclosure, screen, and battery. Battery dies with age. Screens die with age. All 3 are cheap and I don’t think worth keeping at the expense of just buying a new one when the upgrade comes.
And I love upgrading my desktops and laptops. Just in the real world of doing it, usually components are replaced generationally at the same time.
I think the GPU being separately upgradable on the 16" pokes a tiny hole in your argument. But I generally agree, there’s not too much that is saved or retained when upgrading. But for some people it’s worth it, if they’re reusing the ram, SSD, Wi-Fi card in addition to the parts you mention, AND they’re not too rough on the case, screen, and keyboard/trackpad.
The GPU on my laptop is also upgradeable. And when I want to upgrade it, it’ll be time for a new CPU too.
As it is now, very few GPUs in a laptop that can pull almost 200W and have 16GB of RAM. Mine is slower than the newest generations for speed but its quicker for long processing and large memory. When a 24GB GPU based on the 5x architecture comes out, I’ll be ready with a new CPU too.
I got an Intel 12th Gen laptop but wanted an AMD 7040 gen CPU. I was going to live overseas for a while so shipping laptops via air is questionable.
So I bought the 12th gen and then a year later upgraded the main board. No issues other than VeraCrypt being annoyed.
Thanks.
Really loving all the comments on how it is very upgradable.
You can upgrade literally everything on it.
They just released a new high refresh rate screen for the 13 inch. I’m seeing if it’s worth buying.
Wonder if the old display can be used as a portable monitor? I would assume so.
I could be mistaken, but I’ve used old screens from laptops before. You just need to buy an LCD (or whatever display type) controller board.
I may have missed it, but as of now, framework doesn’t offer the controller board by itself just yet.
Knowing them, it’s probably not too far away.
So you can just find these on eBay or something. I would say Amazon but fuck those guys.
You just need to check the model number for the display, then search for a board that is compatible with that.
I’m very very lazy. Id rather have the OEM supply their own model than to get a 3rd party.
Then again I’m one of those heathens who pay for OEM camera batteries rather than wasabi power (which are amazing in their own right)
To each their own.
I like the tinkering and learning how to do things outside of OEM, even if they are amazing.
I’ve got a 13 at home and a brand new 16(?) At work. On the 13 I’ve replaced the hinge and the mouse trackpad. It’s been great and it’s running windows 11. The swappable ports are a GD GAMECHANGER I keep a set in my backpack and I can’t count how many times a swap has saved the day.
The 16 at work is way nice, and I love the custom keypad. I installed Debian on it and I struggled a bit at first getting drivers installed… but with the help of the Debian wiki and llama3 I got it sorted. I haven’t tried installing Minecraft just yet but I’m confident it would work as I’ve used Minecraft on Ubuntu before and it was fine.
I believe you can replace anything that’s not the mainboard/cpu on the 13. I believe the GPU on the 16 is upgradable which will be nice for gaming.
The only critiques I had about owning the 13 for so long is that there were lots of weird firmware glitches that have been solved over time and it’s become a very reliable, usable laptop.
Thanks for the reply.
I think I would het a 16 as they’re the ones you can have a GPU if I understand correctly.
The 16 inch model can have a GPU module installed indeed, which makes it slightly longer and heavier of course. Framework plans on releasing newer GPUs in the future, but can’t guarantee it, as it also depends on the GPU manufacturers.
Let’s hope they will be able to also provide GPU updates, which would truly make it fully upgradeable machine.
I’ve got an AMD Framework 13. I love it. I don’t like how most linux distros don’t upscale well to its hidpi screen but as long as you stick with x11 everything is clear and sharp. I don’t like how the usb c modules are so flush that it’s impossible for me to pull them out. Not that I have any need for it but maybe one day…
Thanks for the reply.
It’s great to see that every comment here is positive, on the whole.
This is stuff for people that don’t know what to do with the money . Guys we are no longer in the 90s 00s , just use the first cheap crap used you can get
Can you expand on this as it’s a pretty wild take to me.
There are millions of of laptops and hardware in the used market . Instead of create new waste, even if it’s an anti waste project, you are generating waste. And nowadays for common task you can use almost any kind of laptop for common tasks. What I’m trying to say is that given the amount of already hardware in the market , buying a new thing won’t help. Just don’t buy new. We need a circular global market. And wipe the already trash that was already built, but by using the already built tings until they are unusable .
Now I understand what you were trying to say in your original comment. Even if you came across as rude
I do agree that people should buy used stuff when they can, however if one wants to get the latest technology then I don’t see an issue in buying a Framework laptop. There would be zero waste from this purchase as once it was time to upgrade again, the old parts would be repurposed as server anyway, I would 3D print a case and off I go.
Buying used is also great if you don’t want the latest tech, and let’s also mention buying used isn’t easy. Lots of scammers, misrepresentation of products, etc.
