Context:
People have been asking for IPv6 Support on GitHub since years (probably a decade by now)
… and someone even got so annoyed that they decided to setup a dedicated website for checking this: https://isgithubipv6.live/
I’m not using it because by and large it’s not implemented properly on consumer hardware, and my ISP doesn’t care if their IPv6 network is broken.
I’ve tried multiple times to go IP6 only. I mostly thought, despite my reasonable understanding of IP4, that I was the problem in trying to set it up. I found my dns host was being forgotten multiple times a day, set to something invalid, then it would time out and revert back to the working one. I couldn’t figure out how to connect two computers together for Minecraft.
Now I hear it was just garbage consumer hardware and software? Fuck me. So much wasted time and effort to say nothing of believing I had turned into a tech idiot.
You’re not an idiot. You’re using tools that don’t really do what they claim because it wasn’t considered an important use case.
IPv6 is great, but we haven’t seen enough pain yet to really drive adoption on the home LAN.
My solution uses the ISP box to deliver stateless auto conf, and bridging a consumer router. I can’t open ports but at least I get an IP.
Do you have an example? Because it works great on openwrt, dd-wrt, pfsense, opnsense, unifi, mikrotik…and then if you’re using the isp equipment it works out of the box.
You’re using open source third party firmware and higher end networking gear as an example. Of course they work. Shitty consumer grade brands aren’t in the same class
You think an asus, linksys, netgear,etc doesnt handle ipv6???
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TP-link can’t open ports in the v6 firewall neither can Linksys and it doesn’t support DHCP forward so literally was incompatible with my ISP implementation. Some current TP Link router sold at Walmart don’t even have an IPv6 firewall.
Open source works great. Can’t speak to unifi never seen it for sale here.
“Everyone is using IPv6”
It’s barely supported. Most providers here “offer IPv6”, but each has a different gotcha to actually using it, if it works at all and they didn’t just route you through hardware that doesn’t know what it is.
What’s “here”? Here in Germany, mine has it for maybe 10 years or so. Basically since launch day.
And new ISPs only have v6 since all legacy (v4) blocks have been sold years ago.
Just because you have a IPv6 address doesn’t mean you’re actually using it. At best you’re tunnelling IPv4 traffic through your carrier’s IPv6 network. Current estimates (from Cloudflare) show only about 34% of the global internet uses IPv6.
If you only used IPv6, you wouldn’t be able to access nearly 66% of the internet.
While you may have IPv6 it doesn’t do anything if the services you utilize don’t support it.
MANY major websites and domains have no IPv6 support. https://whynoipv6.com/
Mordor itself, Russia. Technically, most ISPs support IPv6 here but as I said each has something weird in config that makes using it… Fun. I don’t remember specifics since I’m mostly looking at it from consumer side, but I could try finding the article (in russian) that talked about it.
My current connection doesn’t have IPv6 at all according to https://ipv6-test.com/, although I’m not 100% if it’s because of provider or Cisco AnyConnect blocking shit.
When you when you sign up for internet here, you get a dynamic IP, it’s been that way for… As long as I can remember, really. Definitely more than ten years. I know in Moscow people used to get white IPs way back when, but that’s long gone. Not really a problem since most people don’t host anything.
white IPs
what do you mean by this? Static IPs?
Yeah, I guess that’s a local slang.
huh, weird.
It’s becoming more and more of a problem I’d think. Blocklists just become longer, so the more an IP is used by random people the less useful it becomes.
I might be completely wrong about this though.
Well, kinda-sorta. I’ve yet to hit ip block when browsing without a VPN, but VPNs and proxies definitely are getting blocked pretty consistently.
And seeing how wonderful the situation here is right now, I’m pretty familiar with VPNs at this point.
Not at all only. At times you have both IPv6 and IPv4 and other times you can still get IPv4 at no additional cost like when you run your own router or modem. The layperson will be given IPv6 by default, but it’s not the only thing you can get.
Yes only. Note that I said “new ISPs”.
The older ISPs already own all IPv4 blocks, so while they can still give them out to private or professional customers, it would be stupid to sell the blocks to competitors.
Why should we care? So address space may run out eventually - that’s our ISPs’ problem.
Other than that I actually don’t like every device to have a globally unique address - makes tracking even easier than fingerprinting.
That’s also why my VPN provider recommends to disable IPv6 since they don’t support it.
even easier then fingerprinting.
than*
Auto-“correct”. Thanks, fixed.
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Yes you can.
You’d better hope that you can NAT ipv6 because if you aren’t behind a CGNAT and then your LAN is completely exposed without a NAT you’re very likely going to have devices exploited.
NATs on people’s boundary has been doing pretty much all of the heavy lifting for everyone’s security at home.
The word you are looking for is firewall not NAT.
NAT does not provide security whatsoever. If the NAT mapped your (internal IP, internal port) to a certain (external IP, external port) and you do not have a firewall enabled, everyone can reach your device by simply connecting to that (external IP, external port).
I haven’t seen routers that do not come with IPv6 firewalls enabled by default.
The word you are looking for is firewall not NAT.
No the word I’m looking for is the NAT. It was not designed for security but coincidentally it is doing the heavy lifting for home network security because it is dropping packets from connections originating from outside the network, barring of course, forwarded ports and DMZ hosts because the router has no idea where to route them.
Consumer router firewalls are generally trash, certainly aren’t layer 7 firewalls protecting from all the SMB, printer, AD, etc etc vulnerabilities and definitely are not doing the heavy lifting.
By and large automated attacks are not thwarted by the firewall but by the one-way NAT.
Consumer router firewalls are generally trash
[Citation needed]
They are literally piggybacking on the netfilter module of Linux. I don’t see how that’s trash
They are not layer 7 firewalls for the network which are going to be where most the majority of attacks are concentrated. No citation needed unless you believe they are layer 7 firewalls or using something like Snort.
Added some clarification in my first sentence so it makes a bit of sense.
Wait, why are we talking about Layer 7 when NAT and firewalls are Layer 4 at best?
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that’s our ISPs’ problem
If the Internet means for you a way to access Facebook, Netflix, Google and YouTube, yeah.
But if it means a network to send something to another computer then it’s a huge problem.Because ISP won’t care if you can accept connections or not. They don’t care about decentralization and being able to host stuff yourself. Most consumers just want a pipe to big services and not to their friend’s house.
That’s the dumbest thing I’ve read today… Your ISP is fleecing you and you’re happy with it.
What the fuck are you talking about? My ISP supports IPv6 just fine, but following my VPN’s advice I disable it (on certain devices at least) for privacy concerns. And it makes exactly zero difference in functionality.
OK, not your ISP, but your VPN is shit.
It’s Proton VPN. Lack of IPv6 support is a downer but I wouldn’t call them shit.
Edit: maybe elaborate why you deem IPv6 so crucial? As I said: everything works just fine without.
rose are red, violets are blue, money is the reason we can’t have nice things.
Just remember we got rid of TLS 1.0 the same thing can be done with IPv4. It’s time for browser makers to put “deprecated technology” warnings on ipv4 sites.
IPv4 isn’t depreciated, it’s exhausted. It’s still a key cornerstone of our current internet today.
We still have “modern” hardware being deployed with piss-poor IPv6 support (if any at all). Until that gets fixed, adoption rates will continue to be low. Adding warnings will only result in annoying people, not driving for improvement.
IPv4 isn’t depreciated, it’s exhausted.
exhaustion probably also constitutes as “deprecated” once the utility of a system designed to be, well, useful no longer meets the usefulness quotient that it previously provided. Suddenly It’s “deprecated technology”
IPv4 should be deprecated, but it’s not
genuine question, any reason not to just actually deprecate it then? Like just stop producing hardware that routes IPV4. Chances are there’s enough that’ll already do IPV4 it won’t be a problem, and im sure if you really needed to, you could figure something out.
Adding warnings will only result in annoying people, not driving for improvement.
Given how poorly adoption has gone so far this might be the only way to get actual fast support rolled out. Piss people off, get change
How do you guys remember IPv6 addresses?
You shouldn’t need to remember IP addresses, they invented DNS to solve that problem lol
Even so, the addresses can be even easier to remember because we get a-f as well as digits, my unique local subnet is fd13:dead:beef:1::/60 cause I like burgers haha
Assign a DNS name
Is it possible to do that for router/access point running OpenWRT?
I have to try it when I’ll be back home.
Edit: turns out that all devices connected to router are accessible from
<hostname>.lan. I don’t remember setting it up, tho.Probably, look into dnsmasq? I believe that was the easiest way with openwrt back in the day.
Thanks
Even better, if that’s not something available from outside, to just enable mDNS.
Wow, that’s so cool. Thank you, I’ll implement it in my LAN.
Since I bought a domain name I do not remember IP addresses. Just like I don’t remember password since I installed password manager or not remember phone numbers since I have a smartphone.
It’s only annoying when being on someone’s else computer without my clipboard sharing setup and need to copy an address by hand. But that’s an issue when setting something up. I would take this inconvenience while setting up than all everyday inconveniences that IPv4 created in last years.
hosts.txt
dns, VPN setups. ETC we live in 2024, there are solutions to this problem.
You can shorten them sometimes, the neatest trifk I saw was putting leetspeak words in the address.
CAFE, BABE, BEEF, DEAD, and of course, 1337.
I’ll start using it after I migrate to Wayland.
My isp does t even support ipv6
2 months ago I thought I’d start learning IPv6 and started watch some intro videos on YouTube.
Holy crap… It’s a beast and it just felt like if you don’t know what you’re doing you might lose all control over your network. Ok. So a device didn’t get a dhcp address? No problem… It creates it’s open IP address and starts talking and try to get out on internet on its own…
Normally that’s not a problem since your normal home router wouldn’t route 169.254.x.x… But it just seems like there’s A LOT to think about before activating IPv6 at home. I’ve got a Creality K1 Max… Fun thing: factory reset also creates a new MAC Address… So there’s no way in hell thay I just let her lose by activating IPv6.
Ps. Yes, I most likely panic because I haven’t figured out IPv6… But until I understand IPv6 there’s just going to be IPv4.
Ok. So a device didn’t get a dhcp address? No problem… It creates it’s open IP address and starts talking and try to get out on internet on its own…
Its not that different from a conceptual point of view. Your router is still the gate keeper.
Home router to ISP will usually use DHCPv6 to get a prefix. Sizes vary by ISP but its usually like a /64. This is done with Prefix Delegation.
Client to Home Router will use either SLACC, DHCPv6, or both.
SLACC uses ICMPv6 where the client asks for the prefix (Router Solicitation) and the router advertises the prefix (Router Advertisement) and the client picks an address in it. There is some duplication protection for clients picking the same IP, but its nothing you have to configure. Conceptually its not that different from DHCP Request/Offer. The clients cannot just get to the internet on their own.
SLACC doesn’t support sending stuff like DNS servers. So DHCPv6 may still be used to get that information, but not an assigned IP.
Just DHCPv6 can also be used, but SLACC has the feature of being stateless. No leases or anything.
The only other nuance worth calling out is interfaces will pick a link local address so it can talk to the devices its directly connected to over layer 3 instead of just layer 2. This is no different than configuring 169.254.1.10/31 on one side and 169.254.1.11/31 on the other. These are not routed, its just for two connected devices to send packets to each other. This with Neighbor Discovery fills the role of ARP.
There is a whole bunch more to IPv6, but for a typical home network these analogies pretty much cover what you’d use.
Those are just the same networking concepts as v4. Just 128 bits instead of 32. The hard thing can be ULA or SLAAC, which are like “yeah, just some random address to not get conflicts” and “yeah, first half your ISP gives you, second is taken from MAC address”.
We even get rid of a bunch loaded crap that holepunching v4 and making it work developed through years.
Maybe it seems hard, because what was used before was not really learned how it works but just relied on hacks.
I’m actually bit sad that I had to move onto a ISP which has zero IPv6 support, as I previously did have IPv6. The last thing I did on that connection was to debug the hell out of my IPv6 code I had developed.
I feel you, moved ISP maybe 3 months ago, only to find out I’m behind CGNAT and no IPv6…
That should simply not be allowed. Cgnat for ipv4 is fine if they also provide proper ipv6
I wish my ISP had ipv6 support to be honest
I’m not. I disable it on all Linux machines I manage. And we do not use it at work either.
This. And also disable https. Those things just break all the time.
Not sure what you are going for here
People use IPv6?
I still don’t know anything about it
Just under half of the Internet: https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html
You do as well, if you run any operating system newer then the last 10 years.
Same. I have disabled it on my devices since it mostly just causes problems.
By disabling both v4 and v6 you can fix 100% of the problems.
Because I can remember an IPv4 address and not a V6 address!
At least they could have added an extra octet to v4 instead of making it garbyremoved looking
You are not expected to remember a v6 address - or even v4 for that matter. They are designed for machines. DNS is designed for humans.
This is a good (and fair) point.
However they still look ugly and scary and intimidating :)
I would like to use IPv6 but google and MS are having a dick waving contest with competing implementations, as I understand it. So fuck it.
