*In terms of privacy, customisation, camera quality, and battery time.
For the longest time I have only used either iPhone or Samsung. I plan on switching to Android for the next phone I get, but I find that Samsung phones are often too big for me and put too much energy on camera quality (I don’t take many photos). I have started to look into brands such as Nokia and Motorola, and I would like to know what you guys think of them. Additionally, do you suggest any other phone brands aside from them? My biggest priorities are privacy and long battery time. Bonus if the phone can run LineageOS (I have excluded Graphene as they are only compatible with Pixel phones).
Thank you for any answers. Cheers!
For Privacy?
Not e2ee. Can be tapped.
Only with physical access, which nowaday nobody does.
I wouldn’t put it past an insurance company.
Nah, just ask the telecoms nicely and they’ll give you whatever stream you want.
Why exclude GrapheneOS? It’s a really good mobile OS, and the creator has given his reasons for only supporting Pixels.
His reasons are – I fantasise Google, I love Big Tech security chips, I believe in West, China is evil, I did not get a billion dollar career out of making a Linux kernel patch so I will whine and harass internet people into liking my worthless custom Android build, hide behind my troll army and scare people into thinking my solution is the only solution to get mobile security.
GrapheneOS is pure snake oil with a disgusting sole developer that believes in pushing corporate Big Tech propaganda, harassing and witch hunting any critics, having a little social media army with sockpuppets to do this, abuses mentally challenged by hiding behind “autism” label (Louis Rossmann has a nice video), falsely claims he was swatted without giving evidence or coverage in local Canadian media and blames everyone from redditors to community mods to YouTubers and so on. It has been 10 months at this point since the claim.
I covered this disease for about 5 years, and it emanates from the same sewer that “security” clowns like Brad Spengler and madaidan do in Linux community. All they do is either push their bullshit solutions or push corporate Big Tech propaganda and hate any FOSS project they think will not worship them.
https://old.reddit.com/r/privatelife/comments/ug9qnc/writeup_criticism_of_rprivacyguides_grapheneos/
One thing GrapheneOS propaganda posters also do is sell you the lie that it is the only thing that can give you any mobile privacy and security. Everything else is a failed joke and this thing is the only thing that works. They go to lengths of telling people to fly to other countries to get a Pixel. https://i.imgur.com/Yv9nvxy.jpg And they make fake claims about buying $1 million Israeli Cellebrite kits and them not working against GrapheneOS’ “Titan” security for bootloader and other kinds of attacks. https://i.imgur.com/woNxPhx.jpg
Are you good bro? You’re putting a LOT of words in somebody else’s mouth and your sources here don’t really back up your argument
If you mention Graph<nospam>eneOS, you summon him. Check his history
Dismissing years of evidence with pseudo intellectual trolling is disgusting. All the evidence is objective and mostly directly quotes the discussed parties. Are you sure you are not smoking stuff?
Don’t exclude Pixel phones so quickly. They are one of the most versatile for custom ROMs, and they check all of your checkboxes. I love my CalxyOS Pixel 6.
But no SD card slot. ☹
Or headphone jack
For me it has to be Fairphone. They are more expensive than the others to buy new but they are more aligned with openness and free software. They receive updates for a long time, are well supported by CalyxOS, /e/os, Linux mobile OSs etc, are repairable, you can carry extra batteries, usually have an SD card slot and two SIM slots and are more environmentally-friendly than others.
i second getting a fairphone, but look into a second battery or a power bank for heavy use.
OnePlus.
I’d never buy Samsung again, they are full of bloat and make it excessively hard to unlock the bootloader and get root access or install an alternative OS.
pine64 because freedom.
it ha physical killswitchs. thats pretty appealing if u need that.
casts protect
iPhone
In regards to stock systems, I agree.
Been stuck in the convenient ecosystem for a while, and I cope by telling myself Apple makes the bulk of its money with hardware and services. Not ads like Google. But if I would start over from zero, I think Graphene OS and Linux would be the way. But migrating the whole family away from our current Apple line up - I dread that challenge.
Eh, you can always start with yourself. Let the rest make their own decisions.
The thing about the Apple experience is that it doesn’t only integrate well among your own devices, but also others. Being isolated from that can be pretty challenging, especially if you are the only one in the family. Unless you come up with a whole marketing concept to make the change seem attractive to other (not techy) family members, you’d be cycling uphill.
Can you be more specific?
I’ve heard this argument, but AFAIK the main things are iMessage and FaceTime. I don’t know about your family, but I generally don’t want FaceTime most of the time. I haven’t used iMessage, but it seems like Signal is a drop in replacement, and the benefits are compatibility with Android and desktop apps for Windows and Linux.
Perhaps the play is to switch one app at a time. That’s what I’m going to try to get ready to leave Android for Linux phones (assuming they’ll be daily-driveable at some point).
iMessage and FaceTime are really not that relevant outside the US and, as you said, can be relatively easily replaced by Signal. As another commenter pointed out, it’s more about little things like Airdrop or iCloud’s all around seamlessness that cannot be matched by anything else I’ve tried. Family sharing alone would be a major loss if I were to switch. What Google or Microsoft have to offer in that regard is laughable in comparison (not that they’re any more “private”), and AFAIK, there is no FOSS alternative all of the iCloud family sharing functionality.
Makes sense, thanks for elaborating.
I’ll have to look into the FOSS tools to see what could be a reasonable set of alternatives. Some initial thoughts:
- KDE Connect - connects phone to Linux computer in an interesting way - easy to send files, see SMS, and a couple other things; it’s a bit chunky, but maybe something I could help with
- restic - automatic backup for desktop; pair with Syncthing to automatically keep stuff on your phone synced with your desktop
- Steam now has better family sharing, and you could set something like Plex up to handle video streaming for owned content
But each of these are a bit inconvenient compared to what Apple offers. I’ll think about it some more, and maybe I’ll try building something. My kids will be getting old enough to have phones in a couple years, and I’d really rather avoid Apple’s ecosystem, but their friends will likely all have iPhones so I’ll want a reason for them to prefer something else.
I already use KDE Connect to exchange files with my Linux laptop and it’s not the best, but it’s good enough for the occasional thing.
Steam is not a solution IMO because it locks you in just as much as Apple while being clunky and giving you the illusion of choice. And it’s only for games. Family sharing on Apple products is more than games. If you’ve bought apps or subscriptions, you can share them with family members at no additional cost (if the app opts into that which is disclosed to you very clearly in the App Store). Screen Time is great to block apps above a certain age rating and to restrict or outright block purchases for children. Another thing is location sharing in the Find My app. I know there are many solutions for that, but I just like the UX in the Find My app a lot more.
About the Plex server, I’ve heard they’ve changed their TOS and are now pretty shady or something. Also, if I were to make a server like that, I’d be pirating stuff anyway which I already do through my go-to pseudo-streaming piracy sites.
I could see myself hosting a Synology NAS in the future, but that is still not as convenient or well thought out as the iCloud services tbh.
This made me laugh
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In that case, would you not recommend Motorola? I’m not very well versed on their terms of privacy, and I really like the way they look and how seemingly good the battery is, but if it’s considered unsafe or full of malware then I might need to look other ways.
I can’t speak for privacy interworkings but Motorola makes it very easy to unlock the bootloader. I’m a fan of Xiaomi as well but my current Motorola is doing everything I need it to do and wasn’t expensive at all.
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GrapheneOS + Pixel phone is the only true option if you want any kind of ensure that even of the device is lost your data won’t be accessed.
I think that’s an exaggeration. You don’t need secure boot for your data to be encrypted. What secure boot prevents is someone modifying the device without your knowledge (e.g. to capture your keys).
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Why is this a problem? Buy one used if buying from Google is a problem. Then flash.
This irony shows the superiority of Google.
They monopolize without having intention of monopoly.
It’s admirable
I don’t get people claiming stock iPhone is private. We literally have very little idea. It’s a closed system. It’s private if you take Apple’s word but all the other manufacturers also have similar claims. Why trust Apple and not them?
On top of that you end up locked into their ecosystem, unable to use most FOSS applications or have cut down versions of them because daddy Apple didn’t like some features.
A friend told me there’s no point in stealing them as it’s impossible to unlock or wipe them, which would give them the edge at least in that respect. Is this accurate?
Yes iPhones are secure but not private. The two are related but different concepts. I’m not sure what exactly your friend is referring to though.
He’s referring to how, if you are signed into an Apple ID and have a passcode, there really is no way to use the phone if you steal it (to my knowledge). The device is a complete brick if you don’t have the Apple ID credentials.
This is accurate, it is also accurate for (at least some part of) android though… Going into recovery boot requires the phone pin for my mid-range phone. Hell even turning off the phone can be set to require pin or biometric.
The turning off part is completely stupid though, nearly every phone has a button combo to hard power off (usually power + either vol up or vol down).
Why not Apple devices?
iPhone does not allow you to have privacy due to its blackbox nature, and is simply a false marketing assurance by Apple to you. Recently, an unpatchable hardware flaw was discovered in Apple’s T1 and T2 “security” chips, rendering Apple devices critically vulnerable.
Also, they recently dropped plan for encrypting iCloud backups after FBI complained. They also collect and sell data quite a lot. Siri still records conversations 9 months after Apple promised not to do it. Apple Mail app is vulnerable, yet Apple stays in denial.
Also, Apple sells certificates to third-party developers that allow them to track users, The San Ferdandino shooter publicity stunt was completely fraudulent, and Louis Rossmann dismantled Apple’s PR stunt “repair program”.
Apple’s authorised repair leaked a customer’s sex tape during iPhone repair. This is how much they respect your privacy. You want to know how much more they respect your privacy? Apple’s Big Sur(veillance) fiasco seemed not enough, it seems. Still not enough to make your eyes pop wide open?
Apple’s CSAM mandatory scanning of your local storage is a fiasco that will echo forever. This blog article should be of help. But they lied how their system was never hacked. I doubt. They even removed CSAM protection references off of their website for some reason.
Pretty sure atleast the most coveted privacy innovation of App Tracking protection with one button tracking denial would work, right? Pure. Privacy. Theater.
Surely this benevolent company blocked and destroyed Facebook and Google’s ad network ecosystem by blocking all those bad trackers and ads. Sigh. Nope. Now it is just Apple having monopoly over your monetised data.
Also, Android’s open source nature is starting to pay off in the long run. Apple 0-day exploits are far cheaper to do than Android.
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Well Nokia is a no no They don’t allow bootloader unlock, I would recommend that you check which privacy oriented custom ROM you want to install and check the supported phones they have listed and buy one of those models for installing the ROM
As I usually unlock bootloader, I just buy cheap Chinese phones from around 100 bucks, right now I’m using a FreeYond M5 5G. Debloated and rooted. Working like a charm.
Edit: I prefer Motorola over Nokia.
Xiaomi and Oneplus have some battery beasts of phones.
If you like, you can try my non root smartphone guide which works with any Android phone from the last 5 years, and even upto phones as old as Android 7 Nougat. (NOTE: Please do not use phones that old for daily driver, they have security risks.)
You can do 99% of the stuff fancy custom Android builds claim to provide without needing to root or unlock bootloader (this one prevents lots of risks alone), as far as privacy or security goes. Sure you may not be able to change your boot screen or use some fancy Xposed mod, but that is the cost of extra security. You can use Wavelet or RootlessJamesDSP without root instead of Viper4Android for sound improvements.
I do have a ranking of phone brands in there that is a bit old, but free of political biases, and still relevant. Your options for a LineageOS compatible phone might be low. Xiaomi and Motorola are good options. Avoid OnePlus if you want to use full 48/64 MP camera resolution, they lock it to their own app intentionally. https://www.celsoazevedo.com/files/android/google-camera/f/post-05/
Not sure what else I could tell, depends on whatever roadblocks you encounter upon research.
If you want a great cameraphone with bootloader unlocking, maybe buy a second hand Xiaomi 14 Ultra in few months?
I’m using a SHIFT6mq with LineageOS. It’s similar to the Fairphone (expensive, but repairable, sustainable, good Custom ROM support), but it’s got a few different design decisions and much higher build quality compared to the FP3 I had before.
My assus zenphone is quite good in a compact package and minimal changes to android.
No idea about customisation though.
Be warned that the latest models ASUS removed the ability to unlock the devices
