• MissJinx@lemmy.world
      23·
      2 years ago

      well he didn’t “tuned out to be the good guy”. He was a bad guy and later became good because of the girl.

      • Synthuir@lemmy.ml
        16·
        2 years ago

        I think the message of the film was more that he was always good (to some extent) and that his earlier actions were influenced by his upbringing (in contrast to Metro Man’s)

  • paultimate14@lemmy.world
    404·
    2 years ago

    Pokemon Sword and Shield.

    Rose is trying to move the country off of fossil fuels and onto sustainable green energy. Somehow Gamefreak manages to portray this as being a terrorist and extremist. How dare he try to move Galar away from coal?

    • Karu 🐲@lemmy.worldEnglish
      10·
      2 years ago

      I mean, he did recreate a cataclysmic event in the process, and the projected crisis was bound to happen in 1000 years… One can never be too prepared I guess.

      What is that even trying to say? That there is such thing as going too far when fighting the energy crisis? lol

      • otp@sh.itjust.works
        141·
        2 years ago

        What is that even trying to say? That there is such thing as going too far when fighting the energy crisis? lol

        Game Freak’s writing team is invested in oil and coal, lol

  • rustyfish@lemmy.world
    32·
    2 years ago

    Voyager kinda fucks with my ability to set spoiler tags, so here is your Spoiler Warning.

    The Cabin in the Woods (even tho the organisation is run by complete assholes, they also happen to postpone the end of the word)

    Mass Effect series (the Geth are actually ok having peace with everyone. They just happen to be in a civil war with Reaper worshippers)

    Witcher 2 (Letho turns out to be the good guy)

    Wanted (the father turns out to be the good guy)

    Battlestar Galactica 2004 series (yes, the Cylons enacted the nuclear holocaust on humanity, but there is a case to be made that the vast majority of them have been manipulated by a faction of ancient Cylons, which leads to a civil war later in the show)

    • jeremyparker@programming.dev
      191·
      2 years ago

      Cylons being manipulated by other cylons doesn’t absolve them of guilt.

      BSG did have a few instances of the reverse of OP’s question tho – where the “good guys” turned out to be bad" – trying to say this without spoilers; it’s a 20 year old show but ffs of you haven’t seen it, go see it now.

      • the (temporary) new admiral
      • several main characters during the part where they live on the dirty planet
      • a very specific set of seven main characters (wink wink) … .and more,…

      And there’s one specific example of the full 360 – a character that starts good, turns bad, but turns out they were actually good all along. I won’t give the name, but they were passing messages to the resistance.

      That show was awesome.

      One note tho, on the topic generally: flipping character alignments is a frequent pre-shark-jump thing, and is often bad writing. In BSG, tho, all of the “flips” are pre-planned, or at least 100% true to their character (eg the 360 example above).

      • rustyfish@lemmy.world
        11·
        2 years ago

        BSG is one of the best shows I have ever watched and not a single twist came across as forced or unnatural.

        If I think about that I started watching it years after it was made and only started because I was bored out of my mind at that time. I could have missed it so easily.

        • roscoe@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          7·
          2 years ago

          Same here, I think I started it during the lack of new content after the 07-08 writers strike. I thought it would be a mid sci-fi show I would put on for background then it turned out to be awesome.

          • Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works
            2·
            2 years ago

            From someone who has never seen anything about BSG besides jokes here and there in media, where would I start? The 2003 miniseries into the show? Should I start farther back?

            • roscoe@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              2·
              2 years ago

              I watched the miniseries then the show, and there was some additional stuff I watched also but I don’t remember exactly when. There was a spinoff called Caprica, it was good but never got a second season.

              Here is a watch order that includes a couple movies and webseries, but it puts Caprica at the beginning. It is a prequel but I think it would be better watching it after everything else like it was released.

              Edit: if I remember correctly Caprica either has some serious spoilers or there are some things you wouldn’t understand if you hadn’t seen the main show, I don’t want to say anything more but I don’t know why they recommend it first.

      • dev_null@lemmy.ml
        5·
        2 years ago

        He doesn’t “turn bad”. He’s good all along, but he’s a target of a witch hunt, understandably gets jaded by it and gets absolved at the last moment. It’s the judging commission or however they called themselves who are the bad guys there. Gaeta is innocent all along, even if he is annoying at times.

        • jeremyparker@programming.dev
          1·
          2 years ago

          You’re right, I’ll concede that – but only because BSG is an amazing show and very few characters can be reduced to “good” and “bad” – even the “antagonists” (in the traditional sense of those characters working against the stories’ progression) have pretty valid reasons for doing what they do.

          Gaius (sp?) is one of the closest characters to “bad” – but not because of the bad things he does, but because of the bad things he is – ie, vain, selfish, etc – and the fact that he lets those negative characteristics drive his actions.

          All the characters have flaws, but the “good” characters do their best to mitigate their flaws, and let their positive traits motivate them. For example, Adama often acts before he thinks, a trait that is awesome in combat, but can be less positive other times – and he (as best he can) seeks advice and counsel from the people he trusts (eg Saul Tigh) – he knows he can be impulsive and he knows his “instant judgement” decision making isn’t perfect.

          Cavil (that’s his name I think) is close to “evil” but he does have reasons for his actions – preservation of his “species” (though really it’s just himself) – but he’s evil because of the fact that he doesn’t listen and acts with disloyalty and dishonor.

          (There’s an amazing comeuppance for the titular character of the show Nathan Barley that epitomizes this idea: Barley doesn’t actually do anything wrong, but his motivations are repugnant, and his motivations are what’s revealed… Shit I should write a whole essay on that…)

          Are there contemporary shows that are as good as BSG? I kind of gave up on TV after Firefly.

  • Seasoned_Greetings@lemm.ee
    331·
    2 years ago

    Does Dr Doom count for this? He believes he’s seen humanity perish in every reality except the one where he becomes the absolute ruler.

      • xkforce@lemmy.world
        24·
        2 years ago

        Jerry antagonized Tom into attacking him more often than not. He viewed it as a game rather than a life or death struggle. Tom OTOH would be kicked out on the street if he didn’t try to keep Jerry under control.

        • cheese_greater@lemmy.world
          111·
          2 years ago

          I bet its that Jerry has that toxoplasmosis making him unafraid of cats. In that light, nobody’s at fault. Its just nature shit happening to play out in the domestic sphere

    • daddyjones@lemmy.world
      353·
      2 years ago

      Snape was never a good guy though. Very brave, yes and he had some good qualities. He was also vindictive and a bully - willing to put his petty dislikes above the quality of his teaching.

      • turkishdelight@lemmy.ml
        452·
        2 years ago

        He was also vindictive and a bully

        I formed the impression that James Potter and his gang were the real bullies, and Snape is a tragic character traumatized by their bullying.

      • illi@lemm.eeEnglish
        22·
        2 years ago

        Snape was a good guy, in a sense of oposing the bad guy.

        He was however not a good guy in a sense of being at least a decent human being.

      • ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world
        101·
        2 years ago

        In the movie the only one I would’ve considered good was Rorschach. He was the only one who only made personal sacrifices to save people.

        I mean dude legit let himself be killed because he couldn’t live with not telling the world what Ozymandius actually did.

      • mobius_slip@beehaw.org
        6·
        2 years ago

        Veidt would never consider himself the good guy for what he did, but I think that’s what makes the writing so excellent.

    • rustyfish@lemmy.world
      8·
      2 years ago

      I bought the book just this weekend. Until now I only watched the movie. Looking forward to reading it!

  • Donebrach@lemmy.world
    22·
    2 years ago

    Kill la Kill, at least with the primary antagonist as the main villain isn’t really introduced until pretty late in the story.

  • xmunk@sh.itjust.works
    17·
    2 years ago

    Game of Thrones, everyone is basically a villain but some of them are actually alright (like the Hound and Jamie).

    • mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
      2·
      2 years ago

      Stannis was right but an asshole.

      Ned was right but an idiot. As were Robb and John.

      Sandor had a decent conscience he never fucking listened to.

      Brienne always listened to hers and never made a good decision.

      Jaime was only an anti-hero.

      Mance… probably could’ve left out the cannibals.

      • xmunk@sh.itjust.works
        2·
        2 years ago

        Robb was such a fucking idiot… political marriages are a thing and affairs are so common that each region has a specific name for bastards. The series running up to the red wedding read like a Greek tragedy - just one person having a modicum of sense would’ve derailed the whole thing. Lust let loose.

        Stannis was wrong first. He was bitter that he was passed over and could never resolve that - if he had he’d be living on easy street. Stubborn fucking pride.

        My favorite part about aGoT is just how fucking obviously everyone gets fucked over by their flaws… the only real exception here is Jamie and Sansa - Jamie owes a karmic debt and Sansa was legitimately just “wrong place wrong timed”

    • solarvector@lemmy.ml
      9·
      2 years ago

      Proponent of knowledge and education. Isn’t big on forced worship. Doesn’t murder you for not paying enough attention. Guess it’s all just a trick to capture your eternal soul.