• nekandro@lemmy.ml
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    2 years ago

    This is just Zelenskyi’s government in Kyiv sacrificing everyone else to maintain the notion of a Ukrainian state for the wealthy elite who (coincidentally) live in Kyiv. Look at where the rich are. Look at where most conscripts are from.

    Ukraine is split into the ultra wealthy (Kyiv), the moderately well-off (Dnipro, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia, Kharkiv), and everywhere else (which is remarkably poor). Kyiv has more than double the GDP/capita of the next richest administrative region. This war devastates the eastern economic centers and solidifies power in Kyiv… And for what?

    Ukrainian nationalism have sent hundreds of thousands of men and women to their death for no clear gains. Now, they want to send hundreds of thousands more, because the lives of Ukrainians mean nothing to the people in the white ivory towers of Kyiv. Is the sacrifice of more Ukrainian lives worth it to pursue the Western ideal of crushing Russia (so that the West can collectively focus on the Middle East and China instead)?

    • TheDoozer@lemmy.world
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      2 years ago

      Ukraine isn’t fighting “crush Russia” or “consolidate power,” they are fighting to exist as a nation. They are fighting to not be part of Russia, and if you claim Russia doesn’t consolidate wealth into a small few while sacrificing their poor as cannon fodder, you’re unabashedly lying.

      Now, do Western nations take advantage of this to severely weaken with no personal loss of life or territory? Absolutely. But just because it benefits the West doesn’t mean it doesn’t also benefit Ukraine.

      • nekandro@lemmy.ml
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        2 years ago

        Ukrainian nationalism as a concept is something that has always been a Kyiv-centered idea. This is true stretching back to the Russian Revolution, as well. The concept of Ukraine as an independent state has always been Kyiv’s idea.

        Tell me you don’t understand Russian history without telling me you don’t understand Russian history.

      • gnuhaut@lemmy.ml
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        2 years ago

        They are hopped up on nationalism, which is encouraged by the Western warmongers for their own benefit.

        • TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee
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          2 years ago

          You’re right they should just let Russia roll in, murder their population and take their land. #Diplomacy

          • Amerikan Pharaoh@lemmygrad.ml
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            2 years ago

            Russia wouldn’t be rolling in if NATO didn’t decide to turn Ukraine into the world’s most Nazified hand-puppet. Y’know, to encircle and exterminate Russia, in direct breach of the Minsk Accords.

            tl;dr Occupied Turtle Island being the same oathbreaking settler trash they’ve been for the last 400 years started this. It could be ended just as easy; but oathbreaking settler trash can’t abide that!

            • UFO@programming.dev
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              2 years ago

              What part of which Minsk accords were violated by who? A “direct violation” should be easy to cite. The text of either accord is short as well.

              Also, NATO did not sign the accords so already your claim is weird.

              • Amerikan Pharaoh@lemmygrad.ml
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                2 years ago

                All 12 original points of Minsk 1, all 5 points of the followup, and all 13 points of Minsk 2 by Ukraine’s ongoing genocide of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts and the receipt(and usage) of NATO materiel. NATO is implicated despite not being a signatory due to being involved in the flouting by way of providing aid and comfort to the government that couped Poroshenko on Occupied Turtle Island’s command, delivering them materiel and troops, and by all rights encouraging the ongoing meat-grindering of the region.

                Understand that I will not be arguing with the kinds of people that John Brown would have shot; a number in which I count you, given your cheerleading the murder of one set of Nazi-infiltrated sovereign citizens to attempt and fail to destroy another sovereign nation on behalf of Anglo-American slavemasters.

    • havocpants@lemm.ee
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      2 years ago

      Oh, it’s Ukrainian nationalism causing the deaths is it, not Russia invading? Do you really believe such obvious bullshit and lies?

      • Tinidril@midwest.social
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        2 years ago

        Well, if Ukraine didn’t stubbornly insist on remaining a nation, there wouldn’t be any fighting. Checkmate western scum. /s

      • ExotiqueMatter@lemmygrad.ml
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        2 years ago

        They shoud limit the deathtoll by suing for peace instead of continuing to send peoples dying in a war they can’t win. How is it such a hot take to you that humman lives are more important than imaginary lines on a map?

      • nekandro@lemmy.ml
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        2 years ago

        They had a peace deal laid out in front of them. That peace deal was orders better than the status quo today, nevermind where the war will be a year from now.

    • Bytemeister@lemmy.world
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      2 years ago

      Russia started this war shooting elementary schools with tanks and launching rocket strikes on hospitals. Do you really think this is just about “the western ideal” of crushing Russia? If you want to see why Ukraine is fighting so hard to not become part of Russia, just look at how shitty Russia has been to its soldiers and people during this war.

      • Amerikan Pharaoh@lemmygrad.ml
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        2 years ago

        Do you really think this is just about “the western ideal” of crushing Russia?

        It obviously is. This is what the Anglo Empire’s wanted since the end of World War 2. This is how they’ve been maneuvering NATO ever since it was headed up by the Nazis they saved from Nuremberg and Mossad. Donetsk and Luhansk voted democratically to join Russia; so it’s kind of showing how hypocritical you settlers are about democracy, considering how much materiel came from the West to genocide those who did choose Russia.

        “No no no, democracy only counts when we cosign it”-headasses, willing to coup and genocide anybody if it means your order perpetuates. It frankly sickens me you’d try and bullshit that it could be anything else; but I rly don’t know why I expect any better from settler stains.

    • jackpot@lemmy.mlBanned
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      2 years ago

      ukraine has put off counter attacks because the loss of life isnt worth it, they wait so they can get better equipment. compare that to russia who uses it soldiers as meatgrinders