A UK Member of Parliament recently suggested that there should be a Government minister for men which would presumably do similar things to the existsing minister for Women.
This has thrown up a series of heated discussions on social media about whether this is part of the ‘backlash’ against feminsm, or whether there is a legitimate need for wider support of men’s issues.
As a man who believes that there are legitimate issues disproportionately affecting men which should be addressed, what I really want help in understanding is the opinion that men don’t need any targetted support.
I don’t want to start a big argument, but I do want to understand this perspective, because I have struggled to understand it before and I don’t like feeling like I’m missing something.
You must log in or # to comment.
It’s a disingenuous argument. The MP is from the Conservative Party, i.e., the right wing arsehole party.
You may have noticed how the Right Wing Playbook has been imported from America. Increasingly, when things aren’t going politically well, they’ll have a look at the Playbook and pick a Culture Wars trope. This is one such instance, intended only to divide.
How is supporting men’s mental health and advocating for them in ways they are often overlooked (such as in single fatherhood) bad?
This is the same difference between Black Lives Matter and All Lives Matter. Nobody is saying that men should not be advocated for, but elevating the issue of men’s rights to ministerial level does not help resolve the larger issue of the systemic disadvantage of women in society.
You’re right, it doesn’t. That’s why there’s a minister for women.
Who’s responsibility includes reducing the disparity between men and women. Having a minister for men introduces parity in this regard, which therefore does nothing to advance the interest of women in a male dominated system
which would presumably do similar things to the existsing minister for Women.
So very little then?
There shouldn’t even have to be a Minister for Women!
Yes, that would be nice in an ideal world there would be no issues which affected one sex more than another, but we are not in a perfect world.
I’m afraid this doesn’t really help me understand the view that men’s problems aren’t as worthy as women’s issues.
I am not from the UK but I would think that both genders having support would have been a obvious move. Each has their hurdles and as a society which is created to support the people in it should support both. Equality in its truest sense.
Exactly. It’s the same with any diversity and inclusion push at any level. It exists because the current system favours a specific group of people. If we can put down any prejudice and hire people for their work and passion and account for people with less privilege. It exist still because we still do it. But also it exist now to try and right a wrong.
A minister for men is to do what? We had our time in the sun for the entirety of human existence while pushing women down. Men are at risk of losing anything. The shit men are I hope.
As an American whose only knowledge of UK government comes from sporadic episodes of Politics Unboringed, my first thought would be to replace the Minister for Women with a Minister for Gender Equality. They would have all the powers and responsibilities of the Minister for Women, and also gain any powers and responsibilities that a hypothetical Minister for Men would need.
- If there is a need for a Minister for Men, then that need is met by the Minister for Gender Equality
- If there is no need for a Minister for Men, then the only thing that changes is that the Minister for Women has a new, less controversial title
Sounds like a win-win to me, but again, I’m a dumb Yank lol
I’m not British, but it would seem reasonable to me to have both. Men have issues too; and one of them is the social stigma attached to even acknowledging that fact or seeking help. People who pooh-pooh the idea might be doing so because of that stigma.
There should be minister for equality. Dividing is making more conflicts.
deleted by creator
To advocate for men’s services like mental healthcare, regular healthcare, and things like that. And by regular healthcare I mean the stigma around going to the doctor, not access. To advocate for men who’ve been abused physically, emotionally, sexually etc? Yeah. I’m all for that.
Some people are making a slippery slope argument. That then we would need one for each other gender identity etc. And you know what. We should have those too. If you’re not trans there is a limit to how much you can understand (not empathize, but understand) the challenges that face trans people. Same thing with men, and with women. And everyone should have equal representation and advocacy. Does.it seem bloated? Sure. Does it seem like the kind of thing that might get out of hand? Or might be taken advantage of, or might end up devaluing the authority of the ruling body? Maybe. But it’s better to attempt equality and equity and fail and then try again than it is to not attempt it because it’s "problematic.
I don’t know what the female counterpart does in this role. I don’t live in the UK and so I had to imagine what a person in the role of Woman’s Minister would do. What their duties would be. And then translate that to something that a Men’s Minister would do. And what I came up with (as a woman) was very telling to me that I don’t know a lot about the challenges men face in society. But I do know that toxic masculinity and the taboo of seeking both mental and other types of healthcare exist. And I would love to see someone attempt to fight those at a government level for the benefit of citizens the way so many governments want protect women, and their rights (laws against rape, sexuql harrassment, sexual assault, programs both government and private to benefit battered woman, healthcare services that include abortion and family planning and so on).
Here’s a question for people who do live there, especially the ones who say the representative in this role doesn’t do anything. What are they supposed to do? Would there be consequences of that role was eliminated?
You know what, yes I’m on board with this, let’s have a minister for everyone!
At some point yes. The lack of tackling men’s issues is not due to a lack of representation. Roles like this are specifically about opinions that are not being heard or represented before the creation of the role. Once the need for other roles presents itself, those roles will be created as well. Well… after the need has presented itself for so long that it has gained enough traction to actually have a chance of the idea surviving the proposal. And then only a few more short decades.
It’s similar, though not the same, to specifically increasing diversity on purpose in business. The counter argument that hiring “the best candidate blindly” would be a better strategy misses that diversity adds it’s own value. The person who is almost as qualified, but brings a background not currently represented in the company does indeed bring more value. It is understandably seen as inherently unfair, but it wouldn’t be so valuable if we weren’t coming from such a staggering lack of diversity. So the fix to historical unfairness, is a bit more unfairness but in the other direction. If it works, there will be no reason to focus on it eventually. It will just be normal.
Men are a serious fucking problem, and it’s time an elected official took ownership of the issue and dealt with it decisively.
When Ken wants a Minister to compete with Barbie
nooo that would be sexist /s
Women have a minister to support women’s issues in the government. Men get to walk the streets of major cities at night without fear, and get respect and good pay in their careers. As a man, I feel like I’m getting the better end of the stick, even without ministerial support.
Women have been systematically pushed down for thousands of years, and now they have systems to help bring them back up. It’s like being upset someone else gets crutches, because you’d like support too. I mean, sure, wear comfortable shoes, but you don’t need support as much as they do. I look forward to the day nobody need crutches.
When you look at support for things such as physical/emotional/financial abuse against men then it’s painfully lacking which can be devastating. This alone is a lot more widespread than you may think. Whether this warrants a minister is another question but there are areas which desperately need attention and it’s unfair to say just because women get the shitty end of the stick in general that men are not in need to support too.
There are some US states where young women make more money than their male counterparts…
deleted by creator
I’d say theoretically yes. But don’t make it two, make it three or you’ll again exclude people.
But that minister then has do do their job properly and not just hate on feminism and try to make their lives difficult and do some culture/gender war.
If you want to do it properly find out first how many things there are to do regarding gender. And if maybe one person can work on gender issues. It seems unlikely to me that you need so many people for one topic. Only have many people if it’s impossible for them to simultaneously work for men and women.
