Not everything actually requires a GUI, obviously. But anything that requires configuration, especially for controlling a hardware device, should have a fully functional GUI. I know Linux is all about being in control, and users should not be afraid to use the command line, but if you have to learn another bespoke command syntax and the location and structure of the related configuration files just to get something basic to work then the developer has frankly half arsed it. Developers need to provide GUI’s so that their software can be used by as many people as possible. GUI’s use a common language that everyone understands (is something on or off, what numeric values are allowed, what do the options mean).
Every 12 to 18 months I make an effort to switch to Linux. Right now I’m using Archlinux, and it has been a successful trip so far, except my audio is screwed, I can’t use my capture card at all, I had issues with my dual displays at the start, and the is no easy way to configure my AMD graphics card for over clocking or well anything basic at all.
I’m not looking for a windows clone, I love that I can choose different desktop environments and theme many of them to death. I even like the fact there are so many distros. Choice is a big part of linux, but there is clearly a desire to get more people moving away from Windows and until that path is 95% seamless most people just won’t. Right now I think Linux is 75% to 85% seamless depending on the use case and distro but adding more GUI front ends would, imho, push that well into the 90% zone.
GUI is not a dirty word, it is what makes using a new OS possible for more people.
EDIT: Good conversation all. This is genuinely not intended to be a troll post, I just feel it is good to share experiences especially on the frustations that arise from move between OSes.
Hey Linux devs - Build a GUI or gtfo
No you can GTFO if that is your attitude towards people volunteering their time to bring you an open OS and all the tools you need for free.
Yes, there is still a lot of room for improvement but attacking devs for not providing a GUI is not a good way to interact with the community. If you really want to see improvements then you need to help make those improvements with constructive discussions not hostile statements. We owe you nothing.
My title was intentionally flipant. But I thin the automatic assumption that command line is always fine for linux desktop needs to evolve. Not to say it hasn’t, but there are definitely some basic gaps.
My title was intentionally flipant.
No, your title was rude and condescending. “Flippant” is a different thing.
Flippantly insulating the Linux devs is not the way to improve things. It has evolved and continues to do so. There are far more GUI tools for managing things then there has ever been. The only thing you have mentioned in your post is AMD GPU overclocking - not something I would consider a novice task nor something most people are going to want to do. So the priority to get a GUI to do this is quite low. Hell, it looks like there are no userland tools at all - only raw kernel interfaces. So it is really something we are lacking any tooling at all - let along GUI tools.
Better to advocate for these tools than insult devs for not having yet created them.
You can always create a GUI yourself, if you think it’s so simple. It would be greatly appreciated and giving back to the community would be nice.
The guy is really demanding something from volunteers devs? Not everyone is thinking “We need to make something easy to use so people can migrate from Windows to Linux”, people just build stuff to use and share it so maybe someone could find it useful.
I’m fine with config files, as long as they are where you expect them (~/.config/tool or ~/.tool). What I dislike is yet another funny config syntax because the dev couldn’t settle on an established standard. Command line syntax is ok, if you give me sensible completions.
I’m with you. I’m a seasoned newbie, and I’m ok with config as long as I can find something to help me get through it where I’m. It completely lost and the guide isn’t 30 pages of gibberish that only makes sense to someone helping build and maintain the source/branch.
I do love the familiarity of a gui as it lets me be “lazy”.
That said I started on Ubuntu, didn’t really like gnome, tried kububtu, was meh on it. Then got to dislike cannological. I’m currently using mint, and have tried several distros as a vm. Fedora and Debian are 2 I’m trying to understand better.
That said arch and gentoo both seem like distros beyond my skill set, and I think I’d struggle with them as I don’t feel like the communities align with my needs. I feel like I should get better at stripping out what I don’t need in my distro before I start bare and build up finding only what I need.
The cool part of Linux is it’s kinda hard to go wrong with the choice as a platform. Picking the distro has been a harder choice to find what community aligns to my needs. So virtualbox, ‘kinda’ to the rescue.
- chooses Arch
- complains there’s no GUI
I guess you learned something
Yeah Arch is not worse than the other distros. That is just a reputation it has. Other past than the initial install and into KDE I don’t feel like it is any more command line driving than Mint or Fedora.
Then why are you using it? It’s such a braindead take, and you’re still committing to it.
Having read the rest of your comments in this thread, the two takeaways are
- Arch isn’t for you
- Linux in general isn’t for you
If you want a gui, pick pop os, linux mint, etc. If you really like the arch package managers, install something like the KDE or GNOME flavors of endeavour or garuda. Stop deliberately choosing a terminal heavy distro.
At the end of the day, you can install practically anything on any distribution, and if anything, it’s significantly easier on Arch too. This however is not a GUI issue, but a knowledge issue. We’ve already seen that you can brick your entire installation somehow, by installing a Steam client.
This post feels a lot like a foreigner coming to someone’s country, and then screaming about how everything is wrong. You can either spend some time learning how everything works, or you can just… not use it
I disagree. This year I’ve run through Fedoro, mint and ubuntu, (Skipped PopOS but tried it last year). Other than the installer, I don’t feel like I’ve needed to use the command line any more in Arch than I have in the other distros. It is the desktop environment that makes most of the difference anyway, and anything not present out of the box can be installed easily. Pamac is very good, and not hard to install, so there is an app store like feature if you want it.
You get the GUI you pay for unfortunately.
So… You are complaining about there not being enough GUIs while using the distro that specifically requires setting up through a terminal… If ya want a GUI for everything (which isn’t a bad thing, I understand that) you shouldn’t use Arch. Use something like fedora or Ubuntu. I’ve genuinely opened the terminal in fedora maybe 4 times in the few months that I’ve been using it. Also, sometimes a GUI just doesn’t make sense, especially for programs that are not designed to be used in a GUI… Making a native GUI is hard, both gtk an qt are eldritch horrors beyond imagination to me.
What does GTFO mean in this context exactly?
“you gtfo - this is my house”
It is a flipant remark to suggest that devs should build a GUI or not bother develope at all.
paraphrasing my girlfriend here but “it(referring to linux) was not made by designers but by developers/programmers” which i think explains not just linux, but a whole lot more
OpenSUSE OpenSUSE Leap or Tumbleweed already have GUI for everthing. it is YAST2-GtK GUI. package manager, network, user management, servers, kernel settings, boot, filesystems etc its all there
Can you set the Sample and bit rate for audio interfaces?
I personally have not adjusted either, but Yast Sound allows adding new options and values to audio config when you Applu it writes to various files. or you can use the Pulse Audio or Jack GUI to access.
Interesting. A potentially useful approach. Sounds like I need to take a look at OpenSUSE.
Designing a GUI, especially a good one, can be a lot of work, so lot’s of people just don’t feel like doing so. Especially if the GUI app is literally just generating a config file, the benefit is negligible.
A lot of GUI stuff is reall “just” a frontend for things that others developed, made by guys and gals who are good with GUIs and decide that something they like deserves one. And I appreciate this as much as I don’t take it for granted.
The funny thing is, there is a GUI tool for overclocking AMD GPUs lol
yeah I’ll admit the AMD thing I had not finsihed digging into be I posted. I’ll not edit my post and wear my shame on that one.
Your issue seems less the command line and that things aren’t “working”, or the tools you want aren’t pre-packaged.
Using Arch Linux was not the best idea if you want something that “just works”, as it works on a philosophy where you install the minimum amount required and then add things, such as drivers or packages, as you need them. In other words, it’s a distribution where you know what you need for your system. It is also a command-line centric distribution, so it’s strange that “GUI” is your bug bear when you picked one that deliberately forces command line.
Regarding overclocking and GPU configuration, you just get CoreCtrl, which even has a GUI.
Now don’t get me wrong, I absolutely agree that everything should have a user interface as much as possible, but the whole “Linux means you have to use command line all the time!!” is simply just not true anymore, and I feel this issue comes from people recalling memories from 10 years ago or using distributions where command line is necessary, rather than something like Ubuntu or Linux Mint where it mostly isn’t.
This year I’ve tried the other usual suspects (Mint, Fedora, etc) and thought I’d give Arch a go, just to see how much more work it is. So far, other than the initial installer, it hasn’t been much more work than the other distros, and it has actually been smoother. The AUR is very helpful, and Pamac helps a lot as well. The “just works” experience has been better on Arch than the other distros to be honest. I had the same hardware issues with Audio and dual displays on Minit and Fedora.
Linux has come such a long way, the requirement to use the comand line is much reduced, but there are still some obvious basic gaps that need fixing. Obviosuly this is just my oppinion, and I keep trying so I’m obviosuly not turned off completely.
https://gitlab.com/corectrl/corectrl
CoreCtrl is a Free and Open Source GNU/Linux application that allows you to control with ease your computer hardware using application profiles. It aims to be flexible, comfortable and accessible to regular users.
This is next on my list of things to check out. I need to fix my audio issues first.
I agree that having better GUI is a generally good thing and that most of us would benefit from it. However it’s false to state or believe that Linux in its totality is bereft of this. Distros like openSUSE, MX Linux and Garuda Linux have put in considerable effort into offering tools that enable one to config a lot of stuff through a GUI. However, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to complain about the lack of GUIs if you (or whosoever for that matter) don’t use one of these distros. Arch has minimalism as one of its design goals, so you either have to find the binaries/apps/packages (or whatsoever) that allow you to config through a GUI or you’re out of luck.
I was worried Arch would have me at the command line more than Mint or Fedora, but it hasn’t felt like that. I’m using KDE plasma so I’ve got all the same tools (or can install them if needed). The GUI elements missing in Arch are missing in Mint and Ubuntu, Fedora, PopOS, all of them. I happen to be struggling through an audio issue right now. Can you find an OS that lets you change the Audio sample and bit rates without messing with config files ? This is basic function, and the PulseAudio and Pipewire have been around long enough for a GUI to have been created, but no, it doesn’t exist.
The GUI elements missing in Arch are missing in Mint and Ubuntu, Fedora, PopOS, all of them.
I would agree that they’re roughly in the same ballpark as long as you had picked KDE Plasma on Arch. Though I would argue that Mint and PopOS have a noticeable lead, though I don’t think that point deserves more discussion. However, none of them come close to something like openSUSE’s YaST or MX’ Tools. That’s why I deliberately mentioned them. Perhaps worth a watch for those wondering how Windows compares to different Linux distros GUI-wise.
I happen to be struggling through an audio issue right now. Can you find an OS that lets you change the Audio sample and bit rates without messing with config files ? This is basic function, and the PulseAudio and Pipewire have been around long enough for a GUI to have been created, but no, it doesn’t exist.
I’m unfortunately unaware of any solution for that. Wish you good luck!
