Image Transcription: Meme
STOP USING CSS
* HTML WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE GIVEN CLASSES
* YEARS OF MARKUP yet NO REAL-WORLD USE FOUND for styling beyond <TABLE>
* Wanted to center content for a laugh? We had a tool for that: It was called “<CENTER>”
* “Yes please align that content exactly 32.89% left. Please align 59.0px down”
- Statements dreams up by the utterly derangedLOOK at what FRONT-END Devs have been demanding your Respect for all this time.
(This is REAL CSS. done by REAL Devs)[Three screenshots of CSS code, each one marked with a number of red question marks. The first screenshot has five question marks and reads as follows:]
h1 { font-size: .75em; position: absolute; bottom: 20px; width: 94%; left: 2%; }[The second screenshot has eight question marks and reads as follows:]
*{ font-size: 30px; } q::before { content: "«"; color: blue; ] q::after { content: "»"; color: red; }[The third screenshot has sixteen question marks and reads as follows:]
#header ul a:focus, #header ul a:active, #header ul a:hover { background-color: #5A5A5A; outline-color: -moz-use-text-color: outline-style: none; outline-width: medium; }[The screenshots end.]
“Hello center that div please”
They have played us for absolute fools
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Really though it’s a shame that so many devs still try to treat the web like print where they have full control over the layout at any given time. Even after the death of Flash and the introduction of smartphones and their need for fluid layouts. Meanwhile concepts like progressive enhancement got left behind.
At least we’ve got flexbox and grid now.
As a frontend dev I hate frontend. CSS is not even the main issue.
Fuck Jest and having to mock libraries. I’m gonna go backend in Go or something like that ASAP.
You will still need to mock things for tests in Go
Yeah but the tool chain isn’t a poorly constructed house of toothpicks
That’s not a Jest problem, that’s your skill issue 😎. Mocking stuff is basic shit when you’re unit testing.
Tell me you suck at css without telling me you suck at css
Flexbox
Flexbox everywhere
* {
display: flex;
}
This is the way.
I felt that 💔
As an amateur web designer in the 90s and early 2000s, this speaks to me. I stopped web development when CSS became popular and I couldn’t wrap my head around it.
Is there a petition I can sign to scrap all this nonsense modern web progress and go back to that beautiful, dial-up friendly HTML?
Let’s just design every website using a table again. Or even better, frames!
I stand by that iframes had their place, even if the backend devs absolutely hated them.
Running each app component in it’s own iframe is perfectly valid microservices architecture change my mind.
They still have their place; for example to embed Google Maps or a YouTube video. Generally, whenever you want to embed something from a different website you have no control over, that shouldn’t inherit your style sheets, and should be sandboxed to prevent cross site scripting attacks.
Are iframes really sandboxed in different processes than the main frame? On which browsers?
Iframes cannot access the main frame’s DOM if the iframe is from a different origin than the main frame, and they never share the same JavaScript execution context, so an iframe can’t access the main frame’s variables etc.
It’s not required that iframes run in a different process, but I think they do at least in Chrome and Firefox if they’re from a different origin. Also, iframes with the
sandboxattribute have a number of additional restrictions, which can be individually disabled when needed.
Seems to me they were mostly used to put content inside a scrollable element. Their place has mostly been taken by overflow:auto hasn’t it? I think this is the better way.
I believe Kingdom of Loathing used iframes extensively to achieve what looked like a “dynamic” page long before that was a thing.
Oooh I loved my inline frames.
I was so fucking proud of that. My links down the left side, two inline frames neatly in a box on the right, perfectly designed in two versions. One for 800x600, the other for 1024x768.
I did websites for bands from East Tennessee, one for a weird website for survivors of “satanic ritual abuse”. I thought it was nuts but I made a hundred bucks.
I wouldn’t even know where to start on the modern web. I’m fine with that too. I lost the passion for it when everyone under the sun wanted me to be their free tech support years ago.
I remember when I first started on homestead. Seeing my dangling skeleton gifs and my “under construction” banners made me feel like something. There it was, the World Wide Web, and I had my own place on it. Perpetually under construction.
I used to love browsing geocities and the log in name would be right there in the link. Something like geocities.com/cartman1988
I’d guess the password and change things around on their page to mess with them. “Hmmm, Cartman eh? Let’s try southpark. I’M IN. Time to photoshop dicks on this dude’s face!”
To be a kid again.
Y’all got me all old and nostalgic here. :p
I stopped doing frontend work when responsive design became important. Super unpleasant work. Now I’m happier at the backend where I don’t have to worry about how my shit looks on the 7 million possible screen sizes people are likely to use. Life is more peaceful here.
Alright hang on now - responsive design is about not excluding people based on the device they’re using. Many people do everything in their lives from a low end cell phone and cutting them out is a shit thing to do. Responsive design and progressive enhancement are objectively good things.
The tools have gotten better over the past several years, it’s not as hard as it used to be.
? Who said anything about excluding anything or anyone? I’m just saying I don’t like the work that has to go into making sure nobody’s excluded. In a way, I’m not excluding anyone by excluding everyone now. I quit frontend altogether, left other people to deal with it. At the backend I don’t have to worry about what kind of screen the other end might be using to view the JSON string I sent them. You don’t get “I just looked at your response headers on my 32:9 monitor that I divided into 9 randomly sized tiles and it looks like shit, please fix” calls when you work backend.
Modern frameworks make responsive design easier but yes it is still a lot to wrap your head around. I remember building my hs robotics team website in high school right as responsive design was becoming a thing. “WHAT DO YOU MEAN I HAVE TO NEST A CONTAINER IN A CONTAINER I ALREADY HAVE ONE!!!”
Bless those who came up with flexbox
I love to see the occasional flexbox appreciation, since at least for me (someone just getting into Design/Web dev) flexbox changed responsive design from being a totally unfeasible project to being genuinely fun to work on, and sometimes the most exciting part!
Check out Gemini!
It’s an alternative protocol to HTTP with a focus on simplicity and being much harder to abuse for user tracking.
It’s still a small community, but growing.
If you miss the internet of the nineties, there’s some echoes of it here.
My main issue isn’t even that CSS exists, or its current functionalities. It’s the expectation that, if you’re creating a web page, you must use CSS extensively, and ditch every single “pure” HTML feature that might solve your problem.
On a practical level, what’s intrinsically wrong with the center tag? Or tables for alignment? Those might be bad in some situations, but they’re rather succinct and simple ways to get what you want.
“But what if in the future…” - address future problems in the future. As soon as they appear - not before or after that.
It’s the easiest way to bloat up a web page, and turn 1kb of text into 5mb of download.
People whine about cryrocurrency wasting energy; it’s nothing compared to the petajoules wasted on bloated web pages, full of unneccessary Javascript and CSS.
To be fair most of that bloat comes from the Javascript; if your CSS stylesheet is above, say, 100Kb, odds are that you’re doing something wrong.
The major damage that I see is on another level: raising the bar for what you’re expected to know, just to make a site and publish some stuff. It’s the wrong way to go - the development of new tech should enable more people to do more stuff, not the opposite.
CSS stylesheet is above, say, 100Kb, odds are that you’re doing something wrong.
Hello, non minified bootstrap reporting
I would absolutely consider shipping non-minified bootstrap doing something wrong
Configuring your bundler properly has to be done once per app, and it can significantly cut down on your app’s size.
People expect to see apps, not web pages, but we can be smart about it. Tree shaking has been around for years now, if you build your app properly your bundle will only include the pieces of code that actually gets referenced, e.g. if you pull in a 2 megabytes large library but only use it for one function, only those few lines from the lib will end up in your bundle.
Have you even made a production grade front end project?
You can’t use “pure” HTML solutions because every browser can display these differently. You have to use CSS to make a website look and behave modern. “Pure” center tag is clunky and doesn’t work everywhere and that’s “by design” (That behavior is defined in specification, and we can’t change specification to meet today’s standards because that would make it non backwards compatible). Additionaly you need to make your website scale to wide range of devices. And sometimes you need to even add JS to fix some of the issues if you don’t want the developer to implement a non-maintainable solution taking him 5 hours, if he could do that in JS in 5 minutes.
Look CSS is not perfect. It’s hacky solution to a problem, but news flash: most software engineering is. And it’s proved to be working.
“But what if in the future…” - address future problems in the future. As soon as they appear - not before or after that.
That’s the stupidest thing I’ve read today. I hope you’re not any kind of engineer. There are some situations where it might not be worth it to future-proof something, but if you apply that to everything you end up needing a full rewrite instead of just adding a feature.
Well, we have these devices with smaller screens these days. And people really want to use them for browsing the web as well.
CSS? More like CSS-illy.
Are you even a real dev if you haven’t used marquee and blink?
can we go back to web 1 pls
