Couldn’t think of a more lemmy thread topic than one involving both Russian geopolitics and linux.
There has to be a way to fit Star Trek in too…
Couldn’t think of a more lemmy thread topic than one involving both Russian geopolitics and linux.
part of me is sad that there aren’t many .worlders defending blocking those evil tankies. lol
Yes there are, I think you guys should block .ML and enjoy your botted shithole website. Better your feed be an obvious echo chamber full of hate.
you’re preaching to the choir here; my fault for not including the sarcasm/snark tag.
Lmao sarcasm is indistinguishable from the full on brigading from the “help tankies are brigading us” instances going on in here to me 😅
friendly fire is common on the lemmyverse and i think it’s because of the reddit liberals; they’ve managed to get almost every single reddit refugee to self sort into a few instances to protect their delicate sensibilities so they’re incredibly well organized and funded, or they’re EXTREMELY dedicated individuals to the point of doing it full time for free.
I was wondering what’s up with the comments but then I realized the main feed sent me to .ml.
You should stay on reddit.world or sh.itjust.twerks telling your fellow Redditors about how we need to send billions of dollars to foreign wars that RAND corporation and Chatham House have admitted they never intended to win (they thought Russians would overthrow their own government if enough Ukrainian men and adolescents die on the battlefield long enough, pure strategic genius, Zapp Brannigan would be proud).
The latest report that I saw was Russian attrition was nearing a collapsing rate in which the expected experience and levels of fatigue of renenforcments were to mean the expected casualty rates would climb exponentially on their side.
That’s interesting because I remember reading that in 2022. Meanwhile Zelensky is publicly threatening to deploy “3 secret weapons” which he apparently discussed behind closed doors with western leaders who are responding negatively to this pronouncement (indicating an unwillingness to escalate)
Let’s be for real, Russia could tac nuke a non NATO Eastern European country in response to whatever dual use weapons zelensky is talking about with a nuclear payload, and their chief worry would probably be the global backlash, not the threat of strategic nukes
Put down the washing machine memes and listen to the quieter admissions of Ukrainian soldiers. That’s how I saw them throwing civilian bodies into a pit, gloating, before editing 30 min later to claim they took it off a Russian phone (despite visible armbands). Morale is breaking down, conscription is failing versus the Russian mercenary and volunteer partial mobilization. There is no political change coming in Moscow.
If you make your points with less belittlement, we mods will have to spend less time fielding reports.
This was the wrong account, this is one that blocks everything and says nothing. Blocking and arguing go poorly together the way they work on here.
Seems like you are the one drinking the Kremlin Kool-Aid tbh. The Russian invasion of Ukraine is deeply unpopular, because it’s such blatant imperialism. They are trying to re-vassalise Ukraine, same as they did with Georgia. Simple as. Putin still has delusions of empire and cold-war era “spheres of influence”, and his pretexts for the invasion are paper thin to anyone not drinking Putin’s Kool-Aid. Support for the Ukrainians has nothing to do with Western propaganda - it’s got to do with the fact that Putin has made it very clear what his end game is, and nobody except Putin and his gross coalition of authoritarians, religious extremists and dictators want to give Russia the chance to strongarm/invade its way into becoming the USSR again. Having said all that, I’ve got nothing against Russian programmers working on open source software. Unlike yourself, I’m perfectly capable of distinguishing between the actions of a State and its citizens, many/most of whom are no doubt decent people.
That’s so cute that you think that anyone who doesn’t eat out of the hand of Google News is brainwashed by Putin. You’re such a critical thinker. Thank you for weighing in.
Actually the difference between me and people like you is I actually read what Washington and Kiev are saying about the war and have memory longer than a goldfish! Plus, I avoid search engines that have gone under heavy censorship since February 2022 by groups like Alliance to Secure Democracy. I have far more cogent criticism of the Russian government and their media, their central bank, and MOD than anyone like you, or most of the supporters of the SMO. Mainly that they let the west get away with a Nazi coup in Ukraine in 2014 and sat on their hands.
Of course support for the Ukrainians has nothing to do with western propaganda LOL, you have no choice whether America and its sub-imperial partners in Europe, Australia, Japan, and South Korea send supplies and funding to the Ukrainians. It doesn’t make any difference whether you buy the propaganda or not. These same thinks tanks that call for a war in Ukraine are now discovering that western industrial capacity cannot be restored and falls far short of doing anything other than delaying Ukraine losing.
The economic shock of the coronavirus pandemic has now rolled into the mass realignment caused by sanctioning Russia. Sanctions place a burden on all countries which are expected to abide by them. Outside of western countries which constitute 14% of the world population, people are ambivalent about the Anti Terrorist Operation Against Donbas Separatists entering year TEN, they only care about the western financial system being turned into a weapon against them.
In fact, even American vassals like Europe and Japan are becoming more cagey about war. It certainly is not inspiring the hardcore faction of the Taiwanese about war with China.
removed by mod
it’s a pity that politics is penetrating more and more into open source and FOSS.
recently support for Russian cloud providers was cut out of opentofu. https://github.com/opentofu/registry/pull/824
now this. this is, of course, natural the core and many components of modern distributions have not been free in terms of decision-making for a long time and are under the influence of large companies, which in turn are under the influence of the USA.
Open-source is politics.
MKTux
FOSS has always been political. And usually fairly reactionary.
It’s a fact of life that politics permeates everything, nothing is in isolation of the political climate it exists within.
The state of the world today is a function of the politics that got us here, a big change in world politics can have dramatic and far reaching effects.
A healthy global FOSS culture requires collaborative politics to be the flavour of the day—which is unfortunately not the case in a lot of countries currently.
A healthy global FOSS culture requires collaborative politics to be the flavour of the day
Bullshit. There’s no reason people with political differences can’t collaborate on the same project, unless those differences are really huge.
Politics is not just the relationship between two people, it’s the relationship between a person and everyone/everything else in the world.
Reducto ad absurdum: would you suggest a world where every country is at war with everyone else would foster a better environment for global FOSS collaboration than one where the world was at complete peace?
I honestly thought the statement you quoted was entirely uncontroversial. “Healthy” and “global” being the key words, I’m not saying it’s a requirement for FOSS to exist in general or anything.
We had a time of peace everyone was dependent on each other. Now the world is fragmenting and we we’ll probably have war or at least high tension between the parties.
What was this alleged time of peace you speak of?
To be honest, the only reason why any of that appeared to be true, or the west appeared to uphold free speech, just like free trade policies and laissez faire approach to international finance, that was all just because Wall St did not feel threatened, that was all just because the propaganda was received unthinkingly for the past 30 years or so. Especially between 2001 and the first part of the financial crash.
“Compliance requirements”? The kernel’s american now?! WTF?
The commonality of all these maintainers being dropped? They appear to all be Russian or associated with Russia. Most of them with .ru email addresses.
Not short-sighted in the least…
Similarly, the driver code remains within the kernel – including for Russian hardware such as around the Baikal CPUs from Russia’s Baikal Electronics.
Not a hypocrite move at all…
Are israeli developers blocked as well? How about all american developers considering how the US foreign policy keeps fucking everyone up all over the place in the name of liberty and freedom… of oil?
The kernel’s american now?! WTF?
Now we see the intended outcome of the “Inclusively” movement of the past few years.
I can’t wait to see this “Inclusively” extended to China, India, Brazil and others.
We’ll truly be the most Inclusive ever!!! What a great thing!!!
The open source / FOSS movement in China is pretty rad. I use a sweet all platform text editor maintained by Chinese devs only.
People should be more wary of the control universities, NGOs, finance through those, law enforcement infiltration etc from US, Euros, Japan, South Korea, Aus has over open source projects due to technology being such a high national security priority.
Guess we’re just going to be racist and run with the misdirection of criticism of US laws on to foreign enemies. Just go with the flow, I guess.
If they really want reverse brain drain it isn’t my problem, it’s their long term problem. CERN is also making a dumb mistake, all universities are in on this, it’s imperial chauvinism.
Fantastic to hear! wonderful news. Racists and Xenophobes will try to stop global collaboration, but the real conflict that matters will always be the smart vs the lowiq. FOSS is about humanity first and not any particular sub-category. Everyone who gets in the way is trying to divide and stop FOSS from saving the planet.
I think at the moment FOSS movement has a core of libertarian idealism which historically cleaves to the west when anything is on the line. This is because of academic institutions being dependent on/greedy for financial and political backing, and the control of the time economy of workers by tech corps trying to turn open source into “mow my lawn for free, build character” or by the media platforms which popularizers/online tutors of open source tech and software and operating systems are dependent on
However it is also a worker’s movement in some ways not just a device user’s movement, and I think it will play an important part in the battle over Wall St’s tech cash cow globally.
Racists and Xenophobes will try to stop global collaboration,
Yes! Go on…
real conflict that matters will always be the smart vs the lowiq.
Uff… That’s some serious brainworms right there. How do you call your worldview? IQ Supremacy?
I wanna skirt by all the political stuff and ask what that text editor is?
Nope I’m keeping it
I think the Russians that would want to backdoor stuff would just use a name like John.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/linux-fellow-bans-university-contributing-kernel Or just suggest they back door the kernel to an American university
Error 500 can’t upload the image but check these names for ideas on your next Russian puppet account:
https://imgur.com/gallery/even-more-american-names-from-that-japanese-baseball-game-6HAtN
Edit…I wasn’t calling HIM a Russian troll. I was suggesting to use these names the next time AnYONE makes a Russian puppet account. Sorry, language.
Mine?
Oh! No, you’re not a Russian puppet account. I was saying the next time the Russian troll farm needs new names try the ones I linked.
No I’m getting error 500 when trying to upload a photo. So I linked an imgur of what I was trying to to reference. It’s from a Japanese baseball game they marketed in America.
I am quite disappointed at the lack of transparency regarding this.
Gotta have them “various compliance requirements”, man, gotta have’em. Don’t ask me what they are, but damnit, gotta have’em.
I’m definitely all for Ukraine winning, but this is bullshit, basically the red scare all over again (but for tech).
red scare all over again
It never stopped. Most people still think Russia’s communist. Or any country that calls themselves as such.
Sure but they are not a democracy.
Nope, they’re an oligarchy, pretty much like the US.
Neither is Canada. It’s full of occupying settlers, for example.
This is such an odd thing to do… I really cannot see the benefits for the project doing this. Maybe those maintainers were payed for their work and sanctions prohibit paying them or something?
Or maybe some Russian State backed programmers have tried to slip in backdoors in various key systems, numerous times. Including one that almost went live on millions of machines.
it isn’t like Americans would do that, right?
But where do you have information that it was russian state? There are many state actors capable of doing this. Just saying
What I see is that someone is arguing the point that all Russians are criminals. If someone is sending bad code, they usually just get banned, this time it’s preventive measures based on ethnicity.
Even Wikipedia, which is a shockingly bloodthirsty pro-NATO outlet, admits there is zero proof that a “Russian state actor” did this, there are just “western security experts” claiming it (as usual), and opinion is divided.
Did you even read this or do you just vaguely remember a Wired article? I have been able to see through these obvious ploys since I was a teenager reading about cold war propaganda (okay that was like 5 years ago but still SMDH)
Great sign for discussion that hacking is still being treated by Redditors as Russian, Chinese, and North Korean until proven otherwise. 🤕
Lol
I wonder if there are any official US documents declaring an intent to hide cyberattacks under the flags of foreign nations? 🤭 Wouldn’t that be droll?
Dont forget Iranian
Kernel development is for
only.This is poetry
This is dumb. Corporate divestment, sure, of course, fuck their money and their power structures. But open-source developers are not generally gung-ho about the war effort… let alone propping up their local military-industrial complex.
This is the only plan the west has to win the war. Keep fucking over random Russians in the hopes Putin somehow becomes politically vulnerable over this, despite opposition getting weaker than ever throughoit the war and with the onset of sanctions. Now we are asking random Linux contributors, please come back when you’ve overthrown your government for us.
Russia is of course the only country that has ever invaded another country so it’s only fair.
No matter how many vulnerabilities are introduced into software by western allied intelligence agencies, we should never be held accountable for dealing with them ourselves. After all Russians are uniquely responsible for their tyrannical government because of their Asiatic brainpans.
All those guns are for show, I guess.
Fuck off.
Fact is you know I am right, you just don’t have any principles. You seem baffled some people uphold principles.
Dude, WHAT. This is totally against what Linux and Open source in general stand for.
I don’t support the thing that I’m sure was their reason for this but I definitely don’t support banning someone from contributing to an open system solely off nationality.
So what eventually only the “good guys” can contribute to and use open source software? Who exactly decides who the “good guys” are in this scenario? USA? China?
The implications of what this can cause in the future for potentially all of the open source community is absolutely sad. We should welcome all our fellow human beings to contributing to open source.
Reminds me of a comment the other day on a post about Ventoy. Whatever the situation there is, which definitely needs clarification still, the person was saying that you shouldn’t trust it at all because the maintainer is Chinese, even though he has emigrated away. Because the CCP will be able to leverage his family still there to force him to create a backdoor.
That’s just thinly veiled racism in my opinion.
As far as I can read from that, they’re still maintainers, just have had their credit removed from the contributors page, no?
Still a strange thing to do and I look forwards to an explanation.
My first thought is that this was to make Linux palatable to western regulations, like how companies can’t use Kaspersky anymore. Stupid if I’m right because it’s not like the fsb is going to sneak spyware into Linux.
Edit: Linus commented on this and I was right: https://lemmy.world/comment/13034386
Wasn’t that XZ Utils backdoor recently with state ties or am I just remembering wrong
No one knows yet. Given the scale of the operation it’s most likely a large organization.
Possibly, but that’s a much smaller project being run by 1 guy. Linux has a lot more people and reviews involved.
Greg sent out the patch but won’t respond to mail list questions. Sad to see Linux leadership bend the knee
Dude seriously and I can’t believe how many people don’t seem to see how sad that is in this thread.
Even if you hate this country or that, not even responding about it and keeping the code and using it anyway and only removing the attribution to the maintainers they removed (although that will escalate to banning them altogether I imagine this seems like a step one kind of thing) is just salt on the wound .
Super sad shit honestly.
Linus is an absolute cunt for not only following this gleefully but then attributing pushback to “russian trolls” and “state propaganda” fuck you man.
These people weren’t the MIT pricks who inserted vulnerabilities into the kernel, they were contributors who did hard work and helped advance FREE software. Linus is now turning his back on the GPL and manning it clear that Linux can be controlled by the US state on a whim.
How exactly is he turning his back on the GPL? Those Russian maintainers are still free to fork the kernel, make whatever changes they want, and release it. The GPL has never guaranteed that a maintainer has to take contributions from anyone. Open source could never function that way.
Yep, anyone who is celebrating this is shortsighted and letting their own nationalistic ideas and jingoism cloud their judgement.
There is a hot war going on and the US is using sanctions to isolate Russia from using western technology to continue their genocide. That goes a little beyond “nationalistic ideas”. Russia is being isolated for their actions and this was past due. It sucks for the Russian maintainers, but under the heading of “war is hell” this is a minor inconvenience.
The US is the most belligerent nation on earth, shall we ban american contributors? How about israeli?
Should their code be removed from the kernel?
The real question i haven’t seen answered is Who owns the kernel code. Torvalds owns the Linux™ but that’s to prevent others from buying it, but i was under the impression the source code is owned by all those who contribute to it and not whoever happens to be employing Torvalds at the time. Or is it a matter of where https://git.kernel.org/ happens to be hosted?
I’d suggest Codeberg but that’s in Germany, so maybe another forgejo instance hosted maybe in Switzerland.
Who owns the copyright is irrelevant. Russian developers are still entirely entitled to use and modify the Linux source. The only thing they can’t do is submit their changes for inclusion in the main Linux development tree. The only real consequence for them is that their changes might be broken by future kernel updates and they will have to fix it themselves to use newer kernels. That, and they will have to maintain their own distribution system. I’ve also seen nothing to suggest anyone’s code is being removed.
The US didn’t invade Ukraine and, obviously, isn’t under US or European sanctions. I’m sure that you and I could agree on a great deal when it comes to American foreign policy, it’s just not relevant to this situation where Russia is the clear aggressor. (Setting aside the usual “buffer zone” bullshit that every aggressor state uses and Putin already abandoned).
Who owns the copyright is irrelevant.
It is, which is why i focused on where the repository is located and whether that determines possession.
Possession is irrelevant too. Access to source code has not being restricted, and doing so wouldn’t even be realistically possible. The only practical change is that new updates from these developers will not be published by the Linux Foundation, and ongoing integration will not be done by mainline Linux developers.
If Russia wants, they can fork Linux at any time, call it Rusinux, and do whatever they want with it. They could even port future Linux updates back to their kernel. They still have to keep it under the GPL2 license, but only if they want to honor Western copyright laws and treaties.
